'97 ASTRA 1.7 TD smokes badly...

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:21 pm

village idiot wrote:here might help also, worth bookmarking
http://www.ilexa.co.uk/forum/

cheers mate ill give that a go too..

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:26 pm

[quote="mikew1972

Yes,
Where the 'torque' settings are given like this (in 90 deg then another 30 deg etc. rather than all in torque settings) the head bolts stretch during tightening. This stretch is permanent therefore you always need to replace the head bolts.
It may be possible to get away without replacing them but not if you follow the recommended method of tightening them.
If you are doing the rest of the job properly them do it properly and replace them.[/quote]

thanks mate...

ive got back on to the bloke who gave me the van, and got him to get back onto the bloke who gave it him (the bloke who had the origional problem and did the recon head job)

hopefully ive end up with a 'service history' of some kind which may help....
for all i know the first bloke has stuck a load of dirt cheap oil in it without draining after the head job??

sppose crap oil wouldnt help much?

its used from max on the stick to min on the stick in under 100 miles...

i really dont fancy this head job unless i absolutely have to... sounds like a minefield...

mikew1972 · Post by **mikew1972** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:55 am

If its using that much engine oil then it could still be the head but its probably something else. (a bigger / more serious / expensive fault - like worn pistons / rings.)

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:13 am

does seem like a lot doesnt it...

ive come up with another couple of theories -

1) the bloke who did the origional head job may not have drained the oil, ended up with deisel in it and topped it back up with 5.99 oil out of the corner shop?

or 2) ive read that the valve clearances are critical on these engines, inlet 0.15mm exhaust 0.25mm, apparently they need checking every 20 thou or so... possible contributary cause? that would also mean the valve seals are gone though yes? The 'origional' head ive got is missing everything but the valves, all followers, hydraulic tappets the lot... reckon he may have had to swap them over...?
bloke who did the job (apparently) was a mobile mechanic, original problem was the engine would not rev, start but not pick up. Head didnt fix it. Second hand turbo did. But now it smokes like a chimney.

dont know how to set em yet on this, apparently it need shims?

what you think?

mikew1972 · Post by **mikew1972** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:52 am

The valve seals would have to be missing, not just worn for it to use so much oil. Also cheap oil does not make much difference in the short term - an engine with cheap oil may lat 80,000 miles till its badly worn whereas the same engine with good oil would last 120,000 miles but over a couple of thousand miles there should be little difference between the 2.

On a turbo diesel cheap oil whould most likely cause the turbo to fail before anything else again this would happen after using cheap oil for several thousand miles, not just a few hundred miles (you did say the turbo has been replaced!)

Sounds to me like I'd be considering a used engine from a crash damaged scrap car. (or buy a rust bucket for £100 with a good engine might be the cheapest option) Take the head off and check things out if you are prepared for this and the vehcle is worth the cost once fixed otherwise sell it as is. You'll have to pay someone to take it away in bits if you strip it down to find it needs a new engine block and are not prepared to spend the money to replace it / time to put it back togeather as is.

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:59 am

yes that is one option ive been considering...
didnt smoke before it stopped revving though, or so ive been told...
so that leads me to believe its not the rings or the block...
im gonna drop a tiny bit of oil out in a minute while its cold and see how thin it is..
have to have a scout round see if i can find something i can see and hear running before i pull it out...

Raf · Post by **Raf** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:00 pm

so its smoking badly and using a lot of oil; is the smoke blue?

have you checked turbo? intake pipes for excessive oil?

does this have an EGr valve? a crankcase breather?
clean both.

check HG with compression and sniff test.

does your oil have diesel in it?

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:19 pm

quite white but maybe a blue tint... smells very oily...

dont know what excessive oil would be in the turbo pipes? if i squeeze the big pipe from the turbo to the oil cooler theres a slight change in pitch

whats an egr valve? there like a mechanical arm comes off the bottom of the turbo attached to a small round thing about 40 mill in diameter looks like a big metal 'rollo' is that it?

getting hold of a mate with a compression tester.. will post results... whats a sniff test?

oil seems quite thin... dont know if theres deisel in it.. ill entertain the possibility due to whats been done already, it certaintly doesnt look like the engine was flushed and new oil introduced when the gasket got done...
its very black....

theres a slight black residue around the underside of the water header tank cap, water feels greasy but isnt emusionised (brown)
oil filler cap has very very slight emulsioning but its dark grey not brown like i'd expect..

thanks raf ill post up what i find..

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:22 pm

forgot this bit... theres bubbling around the bottom of the injectors where they screw into the head.. and a small amount of deisel leakage 1 and 3 only.. other two are fine..

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:41 pm

k, well ive had more response of this forum than any of the motoring forums (so much for boy racers eh?) so heres the info so far if anyone knows if what im doing is going to work..

egr valve was clogged and pretty much stuck fast... - cleaned in deisel..

inlet manifold was caked in oil around the egr valve - again cleaned with deisel..

seems to be oil in the pipes running from the turbo to the cooler.. looks like ill have to remove the cooler and clean in deisel..

turbo is off, turbine/compressor secion is separated.. actuator seems to work fine, there doesnt appear to be any wet oil in the turbine (exhaust) side but there does seem to be quite a bit in the compressor side..

theres very slight play in the compressor side, exhaust side seems fine...

there is a rocker cover breather direct to the intake just before the turbo...

would this seem normal? besides the clogged egr valve?

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:07 pm

its not the turbo.. its fine.. stripped it and the oil seal is like a piston ring needs compressing into the bush...
anyway, put it all back together and even if i remove the turbo pipes it runs and still smokes..
it does go a bit better though for having that egr valve thing cleaned out is sppose?
and theres back pressure at the breather pipe..
suppose its got to be the rings?
head off after all then...
and crank out too...
o joy

village idiot · Post by **village idiot** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:23 pm

when i had my transit, driving into Inverness 1 morning there was a loss of power, looked in the mirror & there was serious smoke, couldn't see the road, pulled into the side of the road & engine still ran after it was turned off, was running on it's own sump oil.
let it cool, put more oil in it & tried again, ran sweet until it warmed then rattled like a bag of spanners & smoking like a steam ship
if i ran it with the oil filler cap, i couldn't keep my hand over the filler due to the back pressure
didn't even try to repair, replaced the engine

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:53 pm

yeh the old replacement was the desicion to make..
easier and quicker to be honest..
only thing is a recon engine is gonna be 500 nicker and just any engine out of a crashed/scrapped car maybe 100 - 150 quid... but i'd want to see it running first before i took it out and theres still no guarantee the rings are in much better shape than mine..
so ive opted for the rings...
its got a recon head on it (3 notch head gasket points to this)
the turbo really is in good nick...
that only leaves the block, crank and desiel pump for a full recon so im gonna do the bearing shells, rings, new gaskets throughout, timing belt, alternator belt, good oil, coolant replacement, should end up with what is essentially a recon engine that i can be sure of for a lot less than buying one..
days work should do it with a little help from a mate

(who happens to have all the gear)

Agile · Post by **Agile** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:35 am

It seems an aweful lot of work to be doing when the cars value is so low and even a small mistake can end up with further problems.

Are you quite sure the head gasket is not leaking?

I have an "R" Astra estate with the Vaux engine and that apparently has a faulty gasket.

Fellow in spares shop says you can often get away with just changing the gasket without skimming etc.

You say you have the old head, whats actually wrong with it? I cannot imagine why it would want replacing unless it was cracked or burnt by a leaking gasket.

I thought most head gaskets were only wiped with oil and not any form of gasket goo?

Tony