bathroom lighting problems

steve s · Post by **steve s** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:30 pm

hi i have just replaced a light fitting in the bathroom.there r 3 sets of wires coming from the ceiling..3 live 3 neutral and 3 earth.i believed they were a set from the mains a set from the light switch in the bathroom and a set from the landing light.i wired them up as follows:all earths together.neutral from the mains and landing light neutral together with bathroom light neutral and the neutral from the bvathroom switch into a seperate block with the mains live.now the bathroom light works with the bathroom switch but the landing light works by the landing switch only if the bathroom light is on.i then thought the other wires instead of being for the landing light are for the landing switch.i therefore dropped the live for that into the seperate block containing the neutral for the bathroom switch and the live from the mains ..the landing light stopped working altogether..
any solutions please

honeymonster · Post by **honeymonster** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:45 pm

Take a look at this diagram-

It is taken from this page- http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/lighting_circuits.htm

It looks like you have a wire mixed up, any chance of a picture?

Rich-Ando · Post by **Rich-Ando** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:33 pm

honeymonster is correct. you definatley have not put the wires into the right connections.

the easiest thing for you to do is to remove them all again. find which cable it is that goes to the switch and connect that one last.

as in that picture,

1) connect both the reds (cover with brown sleeving or brown tape) into the middle block.

2) connect both of the black wires (cover with blue sleeving or blue tape) into the block on the right that has 3 screw connections.

3) now start to connect the wire that comes from your switch. the red wires goes to the middle with the other red wires (cover with brown sleeving or brown tape)

4) the black wire go to the left hand block with only two screw connections (cover with brown sleeving or brown tape)

5) connect all earth wires to the earth terminal (having sleeved them with green/yellow sleeving)

6) now connect your light fitting wires again. they connect as 1 in either side of the outer connector blocks. if they are both white it does not matter which side you connect to but if they are colour coded then connect blue to the block with the black wires in(the ones you should have sleeved with blue) and the other wire connects to the block with the one black wire that you sleeved with brown.

normal lighting will now have resumed.

Hinton Heating · Post by **Hinton Heating** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:06 pm

AND ALWAYS LABEL & DRAW A DIAGRAM OF EXSISTING CONECTIONS BEFORE UNDOING ANYTHING

Hinton Heating · Post by **Hinton Heating** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:09 pm

Rixh-Ando

why do you need to put the new colours (sheeth or tape) on the old colours??

I can understand it if you use a black (or blue) as a live... but surely a red or yellow is always going to be a live?

Rich-Ando · Post by **Rich-Ando** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:10 pm

Hinton Heating wrote:AND ALWAYS LABEL & DRAW A DIAGRAM OF EXSISTING CONECTIONS BEFORE UNDOING ANYTHING

LOOL too true

why use old colours when the new colours are already defined?
if you add a new piece of cable you can't add old colour cable as you can't buy that either.
apart from which, unless he has any old sleeving of that colour, you will find it hard to buy that now too.

as for the "yellow" being live, that has and always should have been identified by sleeving.

red always meant live until they decided to make us change our whole colour system to conform with theirs. next they will make us scrap ring -main systems.

Hinton Heating · Post by **Hinton Heating** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:21 pm

hmmm IEE regs 17th edition! lol

the point i'm making is why mark a red as brown, if its already there, and its a live wire.

You should see some of the mess people make with CH wiring, often see the earth cores (in flex) used as earths!, very seldom is any colour sleeved in red when used as a switch live, no mater if blue, black, yellow, white, grey, etc.

sparkydude · Post by **sparkydude** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:08 pm

If an existing installation is wired in old colours then by introducing new coloured sleeving on the cables you are confusing the situation even more for future electricians. If its old mark it as old , if its new, mark it as new, end of

Nick

Hinton Heating · Post by **Hinton Heating** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:22 pm

totally agree nick, by putting harmonised colours onto old wiring it can only confuse the situation even more.

Rich-Ando · Post by **Rich-Ando** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:10 am

i totally disagree with that. if your a sparky you know what the colours are and to abide by the new colour coding it should be marked accordingly.

what's your explantion on introducing new cables to the circuit then? mark that brown wire red and the blue wire black? i won't do that.

your point over people seldom marking them is true but shows poor workmanship. i have and always will mark all of mine. 24 years of doing so i can go back to any of my jobs and the coding will still be there.
it's the same as you will find on cable terminations, 95% of spark's cannot be bothered to double the ends or just twist flex ends without doubling them over. pure laziness.

Hinton Heating · Post by **Hinton Heating** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:19 am

so if you change a socket, you'd sleeve the exsisting red & black with brown & blue?

Rich-Ando · Post by **Rich-Ando** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:27 am

no matter what i do, i update everything to current standards as i do it. it takes two seconds and costs practically nothing.
if i change a socket, 99% of the time the back box isn't earthed either, yes i add that too and the amount that don't bother to sleeve the earth is unreal.

all of this is immaterial argumentative material anyway as it doesn't help steve sort his problem.

sparkydude · Post by **sparkydude** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:38 am

The regulations state that wherever there is a junction of new and old colours then they should be marked as such with a label, but when introducing new cables into an old situation by marking them with new cables its just confusing things, so if you changed a dimmer switchon old wiring in a house thats wired toatally in red and black you would mark the switched live brown ???? what about a disboard change, new tails brown and blue, old wiing for the whole board red and black, Sleeve the lot ???? Your solution is just belt and braces and shows that you like to go over the top with some things. Just for the record , I do double the ends over and i do not twist my flexes i put bootlace ferrules on them at point of termination normally. Enough of the argument as you say ,we do not want this forum to turn into screwfix do we now . Steve has had his problem answered just needs to sort out what cable is what .

Nick