Light removed but problem?

Scabby · Post by **Scabby** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:45 pm

Hello all

Ok I have a small problem but I wish to understand it further.

I'm helping a mate out with some painting at his house and to do the job some lights needed to be removed first.
The House had an extension put on some years ago, this consisted of a dining area and a laundrette. I have a picture ive fumbled together to help.

In the dining room there were two spot lights and one centre light, these were decrepit and needed replacing. The idea was to remove the two spots and replace the fittings in the centre so it could be used.

When I investigated the wiring behind the 2 spot roses, there was three connectors (screw type in plastic block) I have listed them as follows.

The list below does not count the actual lights wires, listed below are the wires coming from inside the ceiling into the connector blocks.

OLD LIGHT REMOVED ONE
pin 1 - 2 x Black wires
pin 2 - 2 x Earth or copper wires
pin 3 - 1 x Black wire

OLD LIGHT REMOVED TWO
pin 1 - 2 x Black wires
pin 2 - 3 x Earth or copper wires
pin 3 - 1 x Black wire
plus 2 x red wires twisted together and taped.

So the plan was to remove the two spots by lifting out their Live and Neutral wires, then replace exactly the Centre light so it could be used.

On the wall in the dining room is a switch SW1 with two switches on the face. One controls the Centre and presumably the two spots however I cannot confirm this as they were not working when started. The other switches the Laundrette light.

The other switch SW2 switches the laundrette light on or off.

After the two spots were removed and the centre rose replaced I checked the wires I had added (2) and made safe.

The problem . . . .

The laundrette light switch from the dining room does not operate the laundrette light anymore AND if you switch the laundrette light switch SW2 to the ON position, then you cannot switch the Centre Light off in the dining room?

Any help on this would be much appreciated, I figured the spots would have been looped of the live and removal would not have caused any problems, pheeemph!.
Reading up only says it depends how the wiring was done and without ripping loads of floorboards up, no it doesn't bear thinking about!

The only wires changed were two spot lights wires (live + earth) were removed and one centre was replaced exactly with another (albeit a different type of light) replacing the two wires and hooking up the earth?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Phil

tim'll fix it · Post by **tim'll fix it** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:08 pm

the two red wires taped and twisted sound like permanent live and need to be joined properly I would suggest

the blacks in pairs are neutral did you leave them connected

Scabby · Post by **Scabby** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:53 pm

yes, all wires coming from inside the roof are in the connections that I found them,

sparkydude · Post by **sparkydude** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:10 am

Sounds like you have disconnected something you shouldnt have, or it has broken off when you re-connected it. How have you joined the wires that were in the old downlighters previously ? If it is in connector blocks, then thats a definite No No as they do not meet regulations for enclosed connections, you need a juncton box. You say you only removed a live and an earth cable, what were these connected to and where did they go?

if you didnt know the switches worked before you removed them then it could be a bit of mucking around to try and work out what goes where i am afraid.

Nick

Scabby · Post by **Scabby** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:01 pm

Hi Nick, thanks for the reply.

When I started painting this i was presented with 2 spot light and a centre light. These were dropping off, literally. I checked behind all three and they were connected by these plastic cube connectors, you know the sort with 2 screws per connection. There were various wires feeding into them but as I was not going to be touching them i could not see any problems.

Each Spot had two wires and an earth. or brown, blue and bare wire. I figured by simply removing these and in the case of the centre one, simply replacing with a new light.

I didn't anticipate any problems!

If as you say the removal of two of these and replacement of the centre (as long as I have done em correctly) cannot cause this to happen then you have already helped me, I can now check the wires coming out (again).

Can you give me pointers of how to check. links or advice.!

Thanks again Nick, the person who asked me to help has very little money and I thought I was doing em a favour painting the kitchen as it had not been done in thirty years! So I need to find out what I have done really otherwise my painting offer of help will fall flat on my face!

Phil

sparkydude · Post by **sparkydude** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:28 pm

The best thing to do is to take off the switches and make sure it is working the way it should do , by testing across it with a multimeter, recheck all connections you have touched, and iff still in those plastic blocks replace these with junction boxes as they are not suitable for use in this situation. If it was working before you touched it then it must have been something you have donw, if it was not working before you touched it then it must have been a pre-existing condition .

Nick

tim'll fix it · Post by **tim'll fix it** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:41 pm

did you leave the two red wires twisted together and covered in tape ??

Scabby · Post by **Scabby** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:16 pm

yes, but I'm thinking if this is the case and maybe I have disturbed a connection! then its prolly best to change all i can reach, just in case.

tim'll fix it · Post by **tim'll fix it** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:17 am

twisting wires and putting tape round them is not a recommended way of joining cables,

I'll have a bet this is where the problem lies