new tiler - go easy on me!

[handyandy]

Hi, new to tiling and doing up my bathroom, have fitted shower tray and now tiling 2 walls it sits on

Started tiling onto a tanked wall, using unibond waterproof/mold resitant adhesive from base of shower tray upwards.

First row seemed to go well, and so proceeded working my way up. Due to time contraints I had to stop and so tidied up, I thought it best to clean the adhesive off the tiles before it dried, so worked my way around the wall. What I have found is certain tiles appear loose, and when I was cleaning they came off, so I now have a slightly patched wall with tiles missing. I have removed all the adhesive off the wall in these areas but I am now a little concerned as to why they did not bond

is it because I was too premature and was cleaning to early?

At first I did apply a lot of adhesive however I was soon getting through the tub of unibond (which should, according to the instructions, have been enough to tile the majority I required) so I lessened the amount for above rows and it is these that are coming away, should I go back to using generous amounts of adhesive?

Finally is it not bonding to the tanking surface, should I perhaps primed this??

The walls arent to bad but I have had to apply more adehsive to certain areas of tiles to straighten up, I suppose this may because I certain amount of unlevelling tile to wall, could this be the reason?

[967stuart]

How big are your tiles ?

what size trowel are you using ?

How are you applying the adhesive ?

Im guessing you are applying it to each tile individually ??

Are you combing the back of the tile or stick blobs on in each corner ??

[handyandy]

hi tiles are roughly same size as a3 paper so bigger than normal I guess

trowel is your standard size

I am using the trowel to put the adehsive onto the wall for about 3 tile widths then combing it using the trowel and trying to make sure there is adhesive to all areas the tile is going (so not blobbing it on), then putting on the tile, if there is an issue with making it even I have to remove the tile, put adhesive on certain areas of the tile and then placing tile back on wall

I have read a few other posts on here and perhaps an issue with the adhesive I have used, I opted for adhesive/grout but people seem to think this is poor as oppose to full adhesive first then grout afterwards??

[darrenba]

hi tiles are roughly same size as a3 paper so bigger than normal I guess

That's your problem. You can't use ready mixed adhesive with tiles this size - it won't ever set properly. You need to used a cement based power adhesive which you mix yourself. I would use something like BAL CTF3 but if you visit a local tile supplier they should be able to advise you the best for your needs.

[royaloakcarpentry]

You are using the wrong adhesive.

Those sized tiles need to be on a cement based adhesive............I.E this is the powdered adhesive which you mix yourself.

Walls also need to be pretty much bang on perfect for those sized tiles.

Thankfully the tiles you have remaining on the wall will be very easy to take off and clean the adhesive from them and the wall.

Start again with the correct materials.

[handyandy]

:( not the news I was hoping for

To be honest though, the tiles which are on are set and are not coming off, ive given them a good pull

It would be an issue restarting from scratch now and so would it be ok me leaving these on and using the bal product for the remainder?

Finally the BAL CTF3, is this waterproof?

[handyandy]

hi, just been watching some videos on you tube, and theres one on from wickes,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42RGPJI- ... re=related

they are using tubbed tile adhesive and also tiles of a similar size to mine, i do take your advice on board but why would a company as big as wickes advise you use the tubbed if, as you say, its the wrong adhesive!?

[royaloakcarpentry]

hi, just been watching some videos on you tube, and theres one on from wickes,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42RGPJI- ... re=related

they are using tubbed tile adhesive and also tiles of a similar size to mine, i do take your advice on board but why would a company as big as wickes advise you use the tubbed if, as you say, its the wrong adhesive!?

For the same reason B&Q emulsion has instructions to coat bare plaster with PVA.............they are idiots!!!! To be honest with you, that isn't how I apply the adhesive or any of the contract tilers I know. You may also notice that he wasn't using a grout sponge either but a normal square edged sponge which has a tendency to dig into the grout lines. A proper sponge is rounded to the edges. Also he has battened the wall when he already has a line to go to............the bath...........and unlike his crappy batten bought from Wickes the bath won't have a bow in it.

Don't forgte it is a DIY store video aimed at DIY type people. They are not going to make it seem hard because that will make you realise it is a difficult task, get a pro to do the job and because the pro won't get the crap products from Wickes, they also lose money from addy sales etc.

How long do you think the video or leaflet would be if they explained about different types of adhesives, grouts. How different tiles need to be treated differently for cutting, sealing etc etc etc.

They want joe public to think everything is a piece of piddle thus encouraging them to do it themselves and get everything in store.

Back to your other post..............your tiles may still be on but that isn't due to the adhesive doing its work it is down to suction. very hard to get any tile off after a few minutes unless you break the suction.

Why would you ask if BAL is waterproof.............the tiles and grout will not be. Tiles are porous! The adhesives claiming to be 'waterproof', you should find that the testing for this is over a 15 minute period or so and not therefore, waterproof as you would expect. That unibond adhesive is not waterproof! Only waterproof for the average shower time ha ha.

Out of interest.............next time you are in a DIY store, have a look at 'International' Yacht varnish. It says on the back of the tin, 'NOT suitable for marine use!!!! How many people by that because of name alone???

[handyandy]

Hi, I understand the thing with wickes and Im not trying to play the pro's and the diy sellers off each other, trust me, if finances were available for me to pay a pro then I would but as there not, im stuck doing it myself.

However hire a pro and expect him to use the adhesive suggested above, debateable, hard to ask 'so what adhesive will you use on my tiles'!!! - Its all about trust really and my point is there are so many different pieces of advice from the DIY store to forums like this

Back to my job though, originally I had help from a family friend tiling the bath, this was done using the exact same adhesive/grout I started off with my shower cubicle. You say suction is keeping on the tiles, I have to disagree because trust me these tiles (the ones on the bath and ones I begun on the shower) are not coming off easily without a scredriver and hammer, whereas from my originally issue, after being on for 1 hour, the other tiles came off.

The waterproofing part is my main concern really, the old shower I am replacing had started to leak and the water was going down into the kitchen from the ceiling. I ask about the BAL product because the unibond I bought was for shower areas and was advertised as waterproof, they sell B and Q own for half the price but without the waterproof tag

From what I can gather this site isnt for pro's to share tips, its for the avergage joe doing bits around the house. Disgruntled as some maybe, some house owners dont have a choice but to do their own DIY, but unlike most diving in, im coming across issues and trying to learn from and proceed but at the same time also cautios of cost, so for example to pay £25 for waterproof wall tile adhesive/grout and to then find out its not adequate and a further £25 product is required is a slight worry! Just one instance at tiling there have been more with other areas of the bathroom similar

I would just appreciate advise from people wanting to help but understanding it from a DIYer point of view

[moderator6]

That's a fair post you will have to forgive Royal he doesn't see the distinction between tradespeople and diyers, works either carried out right or wrong for him

Having said that the only time you will ever see a pro using that awful fix n grout is if they're doing maintenance and have to cut out and replace individual tiles

moderator 6

[handyandy]

thanks

so can someone just confirm, I need to trade in my adhesive/grout and use either

a) ready mix just adhesive
b) mix yourself just adhesive

Can I please have recommendations of each which people have used for a shower cubicle/bath area and not experienced issues over several years?

[handyman]

powdered adhesive gets my vote............... The topps tiles own make stuff is very good value and great to work with

and powdered grout as well, I only ever use Bal grouts

[royaloakcarpentry]

Handyandy..............As pros, we do share tips.

I can't lie to you about why Wickes show ready mixed adhesive/grout in the youtube video. Can't lie about Unibond being 'waterproof'. Most tests are done on the average shower time and that is 15 minutes. If the adhesive is not letting water through in the 15 minute time frame they can advertise it as waterproof......................It certainly won't be waterproof after 30 minutes.

You can still do it yourself but take advice on board, so you start off on the right foot with the correct materials.

You can use ready mixed in a shower area and never have a problem but you should only be using it for a maximum tile size of 300mmX300mm.

Tiles are porous, cement based grouts are also porous.

You obviously have the route of using epoxy grout and this 'is' waterproof. Not a DIY job though, unless you have experience of a lot of tiling jobs.

Mod6 is correct.......for me work is carried out incorrectly or correctly. After all if a job is bodged then it knocks money off of a house value, whether it was done by trade or DIY.

[m3 fitter]

powdered adhesive has a mechanical strength bond, as opposed to ready mixed tubs, i think i may have used ready mixed sticky a couple of years ago on 6"x6" tiles, use the powder as opposed to ready mix every time, as it will not fail, the substrate fails before the adhesive.