replacing bathroom floor with ply plus other queries

[warmadmax]

Hi Guys,

planning on tiling the bathroom floor as well now, (will be my first go at any tiling )
been reading up best i can but can't make up my mind on what to do.
floor dimensions not under the bath are approx 1.75m x 1.4m, overall 1.75m x 2.2m ish.

The missus has spotted some large tiles (just under 45 x 45 cm) that feel rough enough not to slip over and break the neck getting out the bath,
thinking layout is currently chop down solid colour ones to appox 20 cm all round the edge and have 6 patterned (from same range, laid 3 x 2) in the center to fill the floor.

wanting to lay them properly, i'm seeking advise again, my currently thinking is
remove floorboards (old school nailed down tongue and grove past it's best)
joists are 410mm centers (will i need to noggin these?, what size timber for the noggings?)
lay 18mm plywood for the new floor/subfloor (can't find a local economical source of 22 / 25mm)

then i'm not sure what's best after..
a) tile straight to the ply with a flexible adhesive
b) lay 6mm aquapanel or hardie backer board

Also which adhesive would you use?
i've been reading and confused on which to use,
a) Mapei PTB Flexible
b) Mapei Keralastic
c) Bal flex (2 part)
d) bal single part flex
e) other

and leaving a 4mm grout gap?


for the walls, i'm getting a plasterer to give the existing plaster walls an unpolished skim coat and to fill my chases in, will leave this a week to cure.
we're going to tile the walls with 25 x 40 cm ceramics (approx 8 mm thick max)
with a mosaic border / break between white tiles and black.
which adhesive would you use for these? 2mm grout gap? (mosaics are on sheets with 2mm gap)


any help greatly appreciated once again

Matt

[DTWCeramics]

Hi Guys,

planning on tiling the bathroom floor as well now, (will be my first go at any tiling ) Good luck! Floor tiling is loads of fun :) (ish)
been reading up best i can but can't make up my mind on what to do.
floor dimensions not under the bath are approx 1.75m x 1.4m, overall 1.75m x 2.2m ish. 2.45m2 area without under bath, I'd round up to 3m2 to give yourself some spares

The missus has spotted some large tiles (just under 45 x 45 cm) that feel rough enough not to slip over and break the neck getting out the bath,
thinking layout is currently chop down solid colour ones to appox 20 cm all round the edge and have 6 patterned (from same range, laid 3 x 2) in the center to fill the floor.
Not quite sure I understand this, are you going to be cutting all the tiles or using some as a border? sounds interesting though :)

wanting to lay them properly, i'm seeking advise again, my currently thinking is
remove floorboards (old school nailed down tongue and grove past it's best)
joists are 410mm centers (will i need to noggin these?, what size timber for the noggings?)
lay 18mm plywood for the new floor/subfloor (can't find a local economical source of 22 / 25mm)

then i'm not sure what's best after..
a) tile straight to the ply with a flexible adhesive Nothing wrong with tiling straight to this, make sure you prime your ply with a suited primer (Granfix/Ardex) & tile with a suited adhesive. Personally I'd recommend priming with Ardex P51 & using Ardex 7001 Grey adhesive
b) lay 6mm aquapanel or hardie backer board

Also which adhesive would you use?
i've been reading and confused on which to use,
a) Mapei PTB Flexible
b) Mapei Keralastic
c) Bal flex (2 part)
d) bal single part flex
e) other - Ardex 7001 & P51 Primer

and leaving a 4mm grout gap?4mm is a bit excessive, I'd go for 3mm personally.


for the walls, i'm getting a plasterer to give the existing plaster walls an unpolished skim coat and to fill my chases in, will leave this a week to cure.
we're going to tile the walls with 25 x 40 cm ceramics (approx 8 mm thick max)
with a mosaic border / break between white tiles and black.
which adhesive would you use for these? 2mm grout gap? (mosaics are on sheets with 2mm gap) Personally I'd use Ardex D15 to tile the walls, what thickness are the mosaics you're looking at? if they're deeper than the wall tiles, you might want to look at feathering (larger blob of adhesive next to the border to bring the tile to the same height) or if the mosaic is thinner, might need to pack it out with a cheap 6x6 tile cut down (4-5mm ish)


any help greatly appreciated once again

Matt

Hope the annotations help.

Good luck with the bathroom, any questions chuck 'em over.

Cheers

[warmadmax]

Helps a great deal!

the mosaics are roughly the same thickness on mesh backing pre spaced to 2mm.

floor layout i'm aiming for is like the below

. _ _ _ .
| P P P |
| P P P |
. _ _ _ .

So i should be able to get away without noggins? i'm not overboarding, the ply will be the only subfloor

can't see ardex D15 on your site, did you mean D20 wall addy?
also the tubs mention an open time of 20 mins, does this mean you have to use all the tub within 20 mins??

[DTWCeramics]

We've not actually got the D15 on there :P (it's £13.39 before UHM discount of 5% - brings it down to £12.55 inc. VAT)

Still waiting for a piccy of it from Ardex first!

The open time is a guideline, take a scoop of addy, put the lid on, and it keeps for ages. You can use one tub opened for a little while, just remember to keep stirring it occasionally.

As long as the ply is screwed every 6 inches the floor should be dandy.

Floor layout sounds interesting! Are the tiles porcelain or ceramic? Porcelain could be a b*tch to cut to those sizes (corner ones look like they've been cut out of a whole tile?) Ceramic would be a lot easier to cut and should negate the use of a wet cutter.

If you do end up with porky tiles, maybe see if your local shop hires out cutters?

Cheers

[warmadmax]

good interesting or bad interesting ?

looking at this one http://www.tiles-ceramic.co.uk/?cPath=89_99
presume they're ceramic?

i can screw at every 150 mm (6 in) down the length of the joists but obviously not across the gap between joists
(they're 410mm between centers, they're 2in x 7in joists)
i've no problem adding noggins between joists if i needed

my dad has got a one of those basic table wet saws (titan one from a diy shed),
but i'm also looking at a manual cutter to see me right for the walls,
even if's source a decent one then ebay afterwards.
(or keep if i get on well with tiling for the next room she wants tiling )

[DTWCeramics]

Rubi Pocket 50 for walls :)

Manhattan are ceramic but they're fairly tough, cut well with a wet cutter.

Not sure if TileHQ told you or not but they're best if they're sealed as the grout likes to get stuck in the little glittery patches. Nice tile though.

I'm replying to your PM at mo re the walls etc.

BTW: basic table saw is best for the average joe DIY'er :) Manhattan cut alright on them (assuming it's not one of the cheapo £10 ones!!)

Cheers

[warmadmax]

i've not asked anyone about the manhattan yet,
she was looking at those black granite with sparkles in, put her off those as polished wet floors = broken neck when you slip

so aimed for something largish with texture,
the missus just saw them on display and did her typical "PRETTTTTTIEEEEEE"

something like this to seal ? http://www.tiles-ceramic.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=465

[DTWCeramics]

Similar, Lithofin FZ Protective Impregnator.

same sort of price range as well unfortunately. Helps facilitate cleaning as well.

Assuming by black granite with sparklies you mean the Quartzite tiles? They look awesome but the price is a bit

When these are properly sealed the floor isn't actually too slippery, boss has got around 50m2 of them in his kitchen & 4m2 in his en-suite.

Just got hold of BCT about the wall tiles, tilehq sell them for less than BCT supply them apparently, so you BCT!

asking for a price on the decorative Manhattan tiles from my buyer, not looking cheap however :P


give me a shout if you feel you need a hand with anything.

Matt

[warmadmax]

Cheers Matt,

no danger on the wall tiles, last measurement from top of my head was about 16m2 for the walls.

yes she was looking at the really expensive stuff, typical woman
the Manhattan Negro is much cheaper from you so no worried too much about the decorative being more expensive
(place missus saw it was "topps" , went in for "in the flesh" ideas)

guessing plan of attack for tiling is this..

a) fit new floor
b) refit bath & sort waste / water for toilet and sink
c) plan out the wall tiles
d) tile walls down to last course above bath and floor and up to last course at ceiling (inc. mosaic)
e) tile the floors
f) tile missing wall courses
g) seal floor tiles, grout it all (dont like sound of grouting one bit!)
g) silicone seal edges, corners, bath and enjoy

[DTWCeramics]

sounds like a winner.

as I said in above post, it's cheaper for you to use TileHQ for the walls, BCT just made a big boo-boo and we were thinking of dropping them anyhoo, but this was the last bit of straw on the back of our camel!!

But yeah, Topps are notorious for over pricing goods. (don't forget our site by default removes VAT, big blue button on the left hand side above reviews to change this)

when you fit the floor, probably best to prime it at the same time just to give it good time to dry out (or do it overnight when it's not being used, in fact, that sounds better!)

when bath's in, remember to fill it before siliconing/tiling, else when you fill it, it will stretch the silly cone.

apart from that sounds good, assuming all of the walls are in good nick (all nice and square?)

Off home now I think... long day

Cheers

[warmadmax]

nearly square, wall above the bath undulates a bit under a 1.2m level,
hopefully a plasterer can give it a nice square skim for me.

we've got downstairs loo, kitchen sink and the bath still in so managing while i do my DIY thing

still a while off yet, i've got some pipework to move under the boards (from skirting)
i'll cut down to fit then prime the board(s) when i get them home (8' x 4' and 8' x2', luckly the 4' hits middle of a joist )
probably double up on the ply under the bath feet to strengthen and spread the load

[warmadmax]

quick visualiser, this isn't final but I like the layout on the floor

have seen bathrooms where mosaic is verticle behind features,
got a shower riser going above middle of bath and its bar mixer off to the right.

sketchup plan

bathroom.png (247.56 KiB) Viewed 5552 times

[DTWCeramics]

Gotta love google sketchup ;) Free CAD!

Looks like it'll look quite nice actually, makes more sense with the floor pattern now.

Buyer should have a price in his email for the decor tiles.

we're actually out of stock of the Manhattan Blanco so we'll be placing an order for that within next week or 2 I'd imagine so we could bolt the bits on to it.

I'd be a weirdo and have the red tiles at the top of the room, cause I'm cool like that!

Didn't realise you had a curved bath, might actually be worth tiling under the curve, just for aesthetics. Looks better than having cuts every which where :) (saves time too!)

Off to bed when I've made my lunch.. speak in the morning

Cheers, Matt.

[warmadmax]

yeap planning to tile under the bath panel and then either silicone a battern to support it or drill and secure with the panel clips,
did you mean take the pattern under the curve as well?

and at the red tiles round the top, don't think that'd be to my taste.
planning to sit the wall tiles on narrow end so the stripes are vertical

[aeromech3]

Hate to butt in but I need to get my head around the advice for future projects, as others will, who search for similar advice on UHM.
Using ply, yes I have but WPB Eastern ply and as I did not trust my joists not move and 6" spaced screws were not option, due many copper pipe runs and I did not think of an uncoupling membrane on top of the ply, I did not go for floor tiles, but I do not see any of that mentioned above^?