Lots of Tiling to do, Haven't really got a clue.

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:14 am

Hi to all, I'm extending my house, 3 new ensuite bathrooms and a granny annex with bathroom and kitchen so a bit of work to do

. I can do a few things but i always look at the forums to see what the professional say.
First up is the biggest ensuite with bath wc and basin.
'er indoors has chosen the tiles. Big heavy 310x450 ceramics with heavy relief dado tiles and a smattering of small stick-on individual diamond relief tiles (stick-on or cut into main tile). Total 16sqm to ceiling with 2 largest walls stud skimmed and 2 smaller walls brick/block, hardwalled and skimmed.
I was going to pva, looked here and screwfix and stopped dead.!
The new plaster sucks like mad and so i definitely need a primer.
Aquapanel would have been an option but not now the coving is on and some fittings are in. What about flat bedding waterproof adhesive? If not, and using a notched trowel, what depth notches?
Where do i start? Batten across at bath level and work up from there with a bit of measuring first to avoid little fillets into the corners and ceiling?
2mm spacers? silicone gaps to the fittings? The plumbing is boxed in on one side at floor level up to about 200mm x 150mm to wall and the floor will be water-proof carpeted. so carpet the upstand of the box or tile to floor?
Any advice will be much appreciated,
cheers,
Peter

BobProperty · Post by **BobProperty** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:17 pm

peterpan wrote:....Big heavy 310x450 ceramics with heavy relief dado tiles and a smattering of small stick-on individual diamond relief tiles (stick-on or cut into main tile).....

Just curious but from where?

peterpan wrote:The new plaster sucks like mad and so i definitely
need a primer.

Wait til you decide on the adhesive then get the matching primer. Hopefully Mudster will be along shortly and can give some proper advice.

peterpan wrote:Aquapanel would have been an option but not now the coving is on and some fittings are in.

Please do consider using it for any shower areas.

peterpan wrote:.... using a notched trowel, what depth notches?

MUDSTER!

peterpan wrote:Where do i start? Batten across at bath level and work up from there with a bit of measuring first to avoid little fillets into the corners and ceiling?

That bit I can offer some guidance on. Where possible you fit the bath before you do the tiling. This allows you to tile down onto the bath top and gives a better chance of a waterproof joint. The other part you mention is part of the skill of tiling, i.e. spacing out the tiles such that you don't get silly little tile cuts in the corners. Have you seen the guidance elsewhere on this site http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/tiling/index.htm
Only other thing, and it's a personal opinion, carpet in bathrooms is very 70s/80s and very English. I'd rather have wood or tiles with UFH.

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:58 pm

Thanks for that ... the tiles are from right price tiles who are an offshoot of tiles r us who bought out a welsh firm from bridgend ... so the guy told me...
i'll wait for the main man then ... tum te tum tum ...

peter

tim'll fix it · Post by **tim'll fix it** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:25 pm

i use a 6mm square notched trowel for walls and have never had a problem

you can always using a tanking kit on the walls if you are worried about waterproofing them. I would go to your local independant tile shop they will be able to provide you with primer and a tanking kit if you want one

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:59 pm

OK, thanks for that too ... i thought for the bigger tiles i might need to use 10mm notches or use flat bed.
Sorry for my ignorance but what is a tanking kit? Just a guess but does it create a 'tank' out of a section of room or a whole room and make it 'hold water' in a manner of speaking?
Peter

BobProperty · Post by **BobProperty** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:06 pm

Yes a tanking kit waterproofs the area it's applied over. BAL do one and there's a flash slideshow of how to install one :
http://www.tankingshowers.com/bal_installation.htm

Mudster · Post by **Mudster** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:42 pm

The notch of your trowel depends upon how flat your walls are and what size tile you're fitting, so with a 310x450 tile I'd expect to be using a minimum 8mm or possibly a 10mm notch trowel.

Use a powdered adhesive, such as BAL CTF3 or Single Part Flexible, the size and weight of the tiles is above the limit of ready mixed products.

If you use BAL adhesive then prime your porous walls with BAL APD primer (not SBR - this is a different product).

2mm spacers sounds good.

First of all set out the height around the entire room, forget vertical lines for the moment you're just setting the horizontal, the bath is a good place to start, then check how your cuts are relative to the ceiling, bath, windows, boxing door frame and anyting else that may effect it.

Once you're happy with that nail a good batten to the wall at the lowest full tile leve as possible.

The set out each wall on the vertical as you tile, take the centre of the wall and measure in each direction to see how balanced the cuts are, if this deosn't work, start with a full tile in the centre rather than a grout joint etc.

Tile your boxing to the floor carpetted upstands don't look right unless you have professionally designed cappings and it always seems to collect sirt.

In fact I just wouldn't fit carpet in a bathroom and I think we're one of the few countries left in the world that seems to think carpet in a bathroom is acceptable.

Stoday · Post by **Stoday** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:30 pm

If you really have to carpet the bathroom, then use bathroom grade carpet tiles. If they get wet they won't shrink.

You will also be easily able to take up a soiled tile and wash it. You can let the tile air dry or you can get it very nearly dry by laying a towell over it and walking on the towell. Then move the towel so that a dry part covers the wet (but now drier) tile and repeat.

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:14 pm

That's great ... people who know what they're talking about .. thanks for the tips and i'll try to persuade the good lady that she doesn't want carpet in the bathroom.
I'll try to source the adhesive and primer tomorrow but we don't have many good tiling places locally.
Thanks again,
Peter

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:39 pm

OK, got the bal one part flexible (which incidentally, doesn't mention plaster or gyproc board in the blurb on the bag), got the bal apd primer.
Assuming the tiling will be successful, do i use epoxy grout to waterproof Assuming that cement based grout won't be without additive) and should it be BAL too ... i think someone somewhere said you should match the ingredients like that.
Happy to hear from the people who know ..

Peter

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:44 pm

and ... while i'm here, i've got a shower tray with 4 upstands that's about 40mm short of the full width of the next ensuite to be tiled. Ideally, it should be chased into the plaster a dn tiled from there but that just leves48mm to be filled on the other side .. can anyone suggest what to do? Short of treble boarding (lick and stick) both sides or creating a small tiled 'shelf' on one side at top of tray level, i don't have much idea how to make it look right... does anyonr here?
Peter

peterpan · Post by **peterpan** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:20 pm

one more thing, the plasterers told me that, while bare gyproc board is ideal for mechanical grip, they recommend that they skim and prime before tiling because, although the grip is marginally worse, they've been called to sooo many places where the bathroom has been due for an update and removing the tiles has pulled the board paper off with lumps of gyproc (with the subsequent need for replastering). I suppose it's what is right at the time but with one eye on the future, i think i'll stick (sic) to skim and prime
Cheers,
Peter

BobProperty · Post by **BobProperty** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:54 am

Maybe I'm not properly awake yet but I'm trying to get my head round what is going on.
You have already built the en-suites in plasterboard (?). Where a shower is to be installed you would preferable use Aquapanel but this isn't an option for you as the wall are already in place. If that bit's right, then that's why we have started to talk about tanking, as that is the only way to waterproof the plasterboard you already have in place. So, where the showers are going to go, you would be advised to tank the walls.
You shouldn't need to use epoxy grout (but I'll wait for confirmation).
Now the bit that really has me confused: you have "a shower tray with 4 upstands". 1,2, or 3 upstands I can understand, but not 4. I think I am being confused by your terminology. Can you explain a bit more please?
This is "40mm short of the full width". What has happend? Has there been some mis-measurement or the wall put in the wrong place? Why can't the shower tray be moved over by 40mm or (as I suspect) is all the pipework already in place, but 40mm out from where it should be if the tray was to go up against the wall? If you really can't move the pipework then now's the chance to put Aquapanel on the shower wall

Please post back, there will be a solution for this situation that will work for you.

Mudster · Post by **Mudster** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:06 am

peterpan wrote:one more thing, the plasterers told me that, while bare gyproc board is ideal for mechanical grip, they recommend that they skim and prime before tiling because, although the grip is marginally worse, they've been called to sooo many places where the bathroom has been due for an update and removing the tiles has pulled the board paper off with lumps of gyproc (with the subsequent need for replastering). I suppose it's what is right at the time but with one eye on the future, i think i'll stick (sic) to skim and prime
Cheers,
Peter

The plasterers are talking rubbish, tile directly onto the plasterboard, when it needs renewing, just replace the plasterboard. All plastering does is increase the cost and reduce the weight you can hang, and if it's plastered correctly removing the tiles would have the same effect anyway.

Oh and if this is a shower it should be tanked.

Usual nonsence from trades that don't know what they're talking about.

Mudster · Post by **Mudster** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:11 am

peterpan wrote:OK, got the bal one part flexible (which incidentally, doesn't mention plaster or gyproc board in the blurb on the bag), got the bal apd primer.
Assuming the tiling will be successful, do i use epoxy grout to waterproof Assuming that cement based grout won't be without additive) and should it be BAL too ... i think someone somewhere said you should match the ingredients like that.
Happy to hear from the people who know ..
Peter

You don't need to use Epoxy, way too high a spec for your requirements.

BAL Microban or BAL Superflex will be fine and alot easier to apply/clean.