MPs are still fiddling their expenses

[Wes]

Exactly why we need people of solid incorruptible virtue...A problem being that most who have carried them characteristics in political positions have been killed, made to look mad or stupid! Why?

When you can be bought, you are owned. Someone will dangle a carrot and you become a slave to there will. This doesn't include fair agreed trade! I'm talking about greed and power..

I believe there are a lot of good people in high positions that are carrying the burden of there conscience that they sold there sole for a price at the expense of others. A good question would be 'what did they sell there sole for?' A big bank balance?...security?...status?...perceived power??? We all need a roof but do we all need a palace?

“Letting go gives us freedom, and freedom is the only condition for happiness. If, in our heart, we still cling to anything - anger, anxiety, or possessions - we cannot be free.”
― Thich Nhat Hanh, Heart of Buddha's Teaching

[Jasper]

I have considered going into politics, because I feel I could champion those who work hard, obey the law, live morally, and pay their taxes.

I would not lie, or backstab, or cheat, because that's not how I am.

For this very reason, I would never get anywhere in politics. Enough said.

I aalso think you could get nobbled if you said too much too publicly as well.
Some cocaine would get found in your office or car or worse! Not hard is it? and yes it does go on.
Always amazes me how Dennis Skinner lasted so long. A real hero.

Like you I too am considering campaigning.
The deposit is just £500 to stand for election.
My aim would be to have a website where my electorate could vote on every parliamentary issue and I would simply use my MP vote as the majority people wish me to vote.
A true democracy.
We could start a party now call it the Independant Real Democrats. IRD

[Wes]

I'm not sure where I'm going with this Jasper and it's certainly not towards dictatorships but an obvious problem with democracy is if 51% get there say, that leaves a lot of people unhappy. Any thoughts on that? I know we can't win them all but just seems very flawed to me..

There seems to be a bit of talk about down sizing the power of central government and giving more power to local government...

P.S. Would donations to the IRD influence your counting machine

[Bikergirl]

It's such a pity that those of us who may make a difference are so repulsed by the whole thing that we wouldn't go anywhere near.

And if you had integrity, then the 49% would be morally troubling.

P.S. Would donations to the IRD influence your counting machine

It would be very hard for them not to.

I love the idea of the IRD, but unless at least 50% of MPs are independents and working on this premise, their voices will just be swallowed up, or the public wouldn't believe in it's effectiveness.

Maybe, though we need to learn from the uprisings in the Arab Spring, and stop talking and do something, however small.

Jasper, if you're going to stand, I'm sure some of us would chip in.

[Jasper]

It's such a pity that those of us who may make a difference are so repulsed by the whole thing that we wouldn't go anywhere near.

And if you had integrity, then the 49% would be morally troubling.

P.S. Would donations to the IRD influence your counting machine

It would be very hard for them not to.

I love the idea of the IRD, but unless at least 50% of MPs are independents and working on this premise, their voices will just be swallowed up, or the public wouldn't believe in it's effectiveness.

Maybe, though we need to learn from the uprisings in the Arab Spring, and stop talking and do something, however small.

Jasper, if you're going to stand, I'm sure some of us would chip in.

Hey that's great to know!
Remember the SDP stared with just six MP's.
If there were 10 independents and 10 UKIP then they couldn't be ignored for nothing else but for the publicity they would create.

Cameron better watch out! the IRD are coming to get you!

[joinerjohn]

There seems to be a bit of talk about down sizing the power of central government and giving more power to local government...

Hmmmmm Councillors get expenses paid too. How long before they are caught putting in false claims??

[Wes]

No doubt they do it now John. Small hub government might make it easier to expose I suppose. Just to be clear I wasn't advocating that idea, merely putting it into the discussion.

This type of government is obviously happening now with local bi-laws etc...The issues are complex and we've obviously not studied deep economics for years but it's still good to put ideas out there. One idea being the way the monetary system works. Possibly changing general currency to a local currency, with the potential of keeping a better track of money. There're a couple of sites below which talk about this if anyone's interested. The way the world is going, in the future there will be one global currency, look at the euro. May be a good thing, may be bad, may be a little of both, depends on individual perspectives.

http://www.berkshares.org/press/09dec12.htm

http://www.localcurrency.org.uk/ ..This main page talks about the failure of such local currency but go to 'why use' for the ideology around it.

Also worth mentioning 'The bank of Dave' as a source for ideas http://www.burnleysavingsandloans.co.uk/about-us/

[royaloakcarpentry]

Derek hatton got caught. But then again what do you expect from a scouser.......all thieves pmsl

[Jasper]

Thats going back a bit, shows how long it has been going on!
I thought Councillors didn't get paid - just got expenses.
MP's get paid lots, have several homes and are RICH and still fiddle!

I say lock them up!

[royaloakcarpentry]

There is no back bone in this country, that is one reason governments over here get away with so much. The reason why police are a laughing stock.

Biker girl said about the Arab Springs........they are not going to get a good deal out of that.

Maersk used to run the main port in Iraq. Got rid of local employees and took on Phillipinos for less money. The locals got a bit pi55ed about that. They stormed into Maersks offices and gave them two weeks to sack the workers and take on locals or they would be back to kill the management. Maersk left!!!! The port got put into Iraqi management and locals were hired.

Imagine qualified tradesmen storming the major developers in this country and giving the same ultimatum. Wouldn't happen because there isn't the back bone to do it.

we used to do a few things in the worst part of Basrah City. 7 of us with no back up from British military. The reason why was that it was a flashpoint and 99% of the residents were criminals, the army would not enter with less than 800 soldiers (in other words a no go area). When Sadam was in power he could keep it trouble free in that area by parking up one vehicle with 2 Baathist in it. Why are the police in this country not allowed to operate in such a way to instill such fear.

the reason is human rights are too intrusive. Even to the point that we have positive discrimination against whites.

This country is 5hite and if I hadn't met the wife, I would have been long gone.

[Wes]

Why are the police in this country not allowed to operate in such a way to instill such fear.

Give authority or should I say the authorities storm troopers that amount of power and there'd be mass graves in no time. ROC, surely you don't want to be living in a country with curfews and ID checking. A place where people just go missing. Where they can't step out of there houses. You know what I'm referring to.

Lawlessness has a strong link to poverty. Saddam, hoarded his gold and bounced from palace to palace. Whilst instilling his iron fist or fear on the people to keep them in check. The wealthy circulate there wealth between them and shake there fingers patronisingly at the animals on the streets. The animal society that they help create. It's a form of social genocide. Leave them to tear themselves to pieces. Gaddafi was the same and eventually it imploded on him.

Human rights, although a seeming pain in the neck at times and may not feel like it but it's as much about protecting you as it is them. It's one of the last stands we've got to complete authoritarian control.

Out of interest where would you have gone where the grass is greener?

[royaloakcarpentry]

Panama was one choice and probably top of the list.

To be honest I wouldn't care less if rapists, illegal immigrants, murderers drug dealers etc went away in police custody and were never seen again.

Sadam had a lot of backing across the board. There was middle ground in the way he ruled, he didn't use it though. Being politically bought up by an uncle who was a Nazi there is no real surprise as to how he was. you aren't killed now if your car breaks down outside Baghdad Palace, but you are in certain areas if you are a barber that trims beards.

Gadaffi may have been what the West say he was or he may not have been. More are murdered on a daily basis now than when he was in power.hopped the border into Iran to spend his leave and came back saying how free it was. been gambling, drinking and banging whores for 10 days. might have been different if he were Sunni though lol.

The West likes to report on some dictatorships or countries in a way that suits an aim. Iran, opressed etc etc. not entirely. One of my locals

human rights should be for those that earn them. I would welcome ID checking and withdrawal of human rights act for criminals.


biggest point is there is a good place to be at and it is probably half way between what we have and how the dictators were.

[Wes]

To be honest I wouldn't care less if rapists, illegal immigrants, murderers drug dealers etc went away in police custody and were never seen again.

I would welcome ID checking and withdrawal of human rights act for criminals.

The problem with that is, once people start disappearing due to alleged offences without due justice (which the human rights partially cover or tries to), the authorities and malicious/vengeful people start to use that as a weapon. I personally wouldn't want to be in a situation where somebody accuses me of rape, the authorities believe them or might have an agenda to get rid of me (ala Julian Assange) and are given the power to pick me off the street and bundle me into a car, taken to a star chamber court and away I go.

The West likes to report on some dictatorships or countries in a way that suits an aim. Iran, opressed etc etc. not entirely. One of my locals

Totally agree, and we all believe it hook line and sinker. I'm not a big fan of the BBC etc.

I would welcome ID checking and withdrawal of human rights act for criminals.

Mix increased power to the authorities and a removal of human rights for criminals and we'll be back in the dark ages. I agree it's not good to see real criminals given rights but we take away freedom from ourselves as well if we go down that route. I.e. People scared to say anything in case they end up in the hands of the authorities and get locked up indefinitely because there not conforming (Mandela). How can the authorities ever be held accountable with threats like that hanging over everyone's heads. The days of seeing people locked in the tower are gone, I hope.

biggest point is there is a good place to be at and it is probably half way between what we have and how the dictators were.

Fair enough. I don't see anything wrong in looking for middle ground. It just depends where the perceived middle ground is for each individual I suppose.