Re-pointing of tiled path - more work needed than 1st agreed

[Diwabl]

Hello! I was hoping to tap the combined knowledge of the professional community on here. A little bit of background first. I live in a Edwardian mid-terrace house, with small garden to the front of the property. As is typical of this type of property there is a [bsmall path[/b] from the front gate to the front door that is paved with encaustic tiles. After a harsh winter the pointing between the tiles had started to break down and was in need of repair. After obtaining several quotes, sourced from 'Check-a-trade', I decided to employ someone that I'd used previously (plastering) and been happy with. So on 24/10/2011 work was carried out and the pathway re-pointed.

It was during the first six months after completion that I contacted the trades-person (a plastererby trade, afaik), regarding a small area of unfinished pointing on the front garden wall (this was also done at the same time as the path). He said that he would attend to the problem within a week - and unfortunately didn't show.

On 5/4/2013, I contacted him again via email and telephone (mobile message and message left with partner). This time about the pointing on the tiled pathway which had started to break up in addition to the unfinished pointing on the wall. We agreed that he would inspect the problems during the week of 8/5/13 and 12/5/13 and telephone to let me know the outcome. I didn't hear from him again.

As a result on 7/6/2013, I took my complaint to Check-a-trade. This was followed by a pitiful phone call from him where he moaned that I'd marked him down on the 'Check-a-trade' questionnaire for tidiness of the job (he'd left chunks of new mortar in the pebble stones that act as a mulch in the flower bed). He also said that I couldn't expect the pointing to last "...that long!" I replied that I could reasonably expect it to last longer than it had! Following this, it was agreed that he would attend to make good the defects within an agreed time period of which it appeared he did.

Regrettably, the pointing on the tiles broke down again within weeks. On 21/9/2013, I sent a letter outlining the problem and asked him to contact me withing 7 days to make arrangements for remedial work. By the 23/11/2013, I still had not heard from him, so I sent a second letter giving him a further 7 days to contact me and another 14 days to commence work.

The deadline for the further 7 days passed and I was wondering what to do next, until the 3/12/2013, when I found his business card stuck in the gap between the front door and the frame, with nothing written on it! Rightly or wrongly I decided to ignore it, because I felt it was too little to late (also, it could have been a circular). I was still wondering what to do next when on 11/12/2013, whilst returning with my wife from my son's Nursery Xmas show, I was met by him outside my house. He mentioned the card and also said that he'd come by several times, but there was no one in? To cut to the chase, he said that he'd inspected the paving along with his brother (a builder) and come to the conclusion that the foundation layer beneath the tiles was probably crumbling and that to remedy the problem, the tiles needed be removed and the foundation made good. He demonstrated his conclusion by tapping on various tiles and saying listen it sounds hollow underneath? He then informed me that initially I'd instructed him to repair the pointing, implying that he wasn't liable and he'd done as he was asked. I didn't comment on this, but my initial feeling was that, should he as a professional have been aware of this? He even mentioned that he's previously done such a job? He said that it had, "...been playing on his mind..." and that he, "...just wanted it resolved." He said that he was willing to re-point again but it would probably break down again. He also said I could obtain further quotes, intimating in my mind that this was going to cost extra! This was before confirming that I wasn't going to take any further action. I said I needed to discuss this with my wife first and that I'd be in touch in shortly.

I have since done a little research in this area and found this, http://bit.ly/1dineG. The relevant paragraph states that,

"If the extra work is something that any reasonably skilled builder should have spotted, then it should have been included in the original contract. You could argue that the builder didn't use reasonable care and skill when they drew up the original quote and so is in breach of contract. As compensation, you can ask him to honour the original quote."

Which brings us to the crux of the matter, is it reasonable for me to expect that he should he have anticipated the crumbling foundation at the outset? Especially as he'd had previous experience, as mentioned earlier? I have included some pics to illustrate.

Kind regards
D

[Colour Republic]

Before I comment too much. Did any of the other people you originally get quotes from suggest that the tiles may need to be relaid?

Also were any of the people you asked to quote originally professional tilers? Or at least tradesmen with tiling knowledge.

Anybody with tiling knowledge would have checked the bond of the tiles before suggesting any works that may be needed. Clearly your guy didn't do that. Where you go from here I'm not sure. At the very least you could expect reimbursement for the portion of works that relate to the tiles but you can't expect him to cover the costs of lifting and relaying the path if that isn't what he originally quoted for. He should have quoted for that but he didn't.

[wine~o]

Employing a Plasterer to do that job was your first mistake..

You wouldn't ask a Window cleaner to service your car would you ??

In my opinion you should bite the bullet, put it down to experience and ask friends/family for recommendations...

As for "Check-a-trade"......

[Diwabl]

(@wine~o) Thanks for your welcome and reply. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my initial post. He advertises himself as plaster and builder (have a look at the attached screenshot). As for, "...putting it down to experience...", I think it depends on how much I can afford to lose £300+, answer= I can't and frankly don't see why I should! Also, what's wrong with checkatrade. Perhaps I'm being a bit naive, but I thought by using this service (it's not the only one I use) I am showing some due diligence and if it all goes pear shaped, I do have some hope of redress. Again, perhaps I'm being naive, but surely 300+ references over a number of years are better than the odd one or two recommendations from friends and family. Is it open to abuse, ie, trades-person conspiring with others to get false reports? If so, are there better schemes, eg, trading standards 'Buy with confidence' scheme or 'Rated People'? It's interesting to note, that I've 'come-a-cropper' using a friends recommendation before and I didn't pursue it with the trades-person because I felt so awkward! I was left feeling like never again!

(@Colour Republic) Thanks for a thoughtful response! After reflecting on the quotes issue, I remembered that I only got two quotes and the second quote was from someone registered with Rated People, who gave a rough estimated, prior to any physical survey. As I said previously, I made my decision based on work he had done for us previously. If you look at the attached screenshot you will see he does advertise himself as a builder that carries out tiling work amongst other things. On you last point, to be honest, if I'd be happy for a reimbursement of the original costs and to start from scratch with a new contract. Do you think I should insist on this?

[darrenba]

All Checkatrade care about is getting their subscriptions from their subscribers. There's no real comeback for any customer who've been let down by a trader. From what I gather Rated People is the same.

'Buy with confidence' has more clout with their tradesmen, as they have the teeth to pursue the tradesmen against any complaints. I know that I can say, hand on heart, that all my reviews are 100% genuine from genuine customers.

Sorry but a plasterer is a plasterer and that's what they specialise in. You needed either a specialist tiler or a paving expert to do this job.

Were/are the tiles loose? What product did he use to joint them with?

[wine~o]

Have to agree with Darren, Trading standards scheme is head and shoulders above the likes of "check-a-trade"..

Not that all "trades" who are on check-a-trade/rated people are poor, it's just that the websites are only there to make money for the website owner, whereas the trading standards scheme is purely to protect people like yourself..the customer.

[Chris Skilbeck]

, but surely 300+ references over a number of years are better than the odd one or two recommendations from friends and family.

No - what an odd assumption - a recommendation from someone you know - maybe even the chance to see the work someone did for them - is surely worth a thousand ratings on some commercial website.

It's hard to tell from your pics, but my impression is that the guy has used up a bag of lumpy old cement - and if his second attempt at grouting these tiles

broke down again within weeks.

then he's plainly incompetent.

So, unless you want to spend your life ringing someone that you don't want to work on your property again anyway, take Wine-o's advice

In my opinion you should bite the bullet, put it down to experience and ask friends/family for recommendations...

and get a builder or a specialist paver to lift those tiles and relay them and get the joints right.

[haveagohero]

I would say a big part of the problem is that he's probably just used something like sand and cement and not a decent flexible grout. BUT as has been said you have employed a PLASTERER for a TILING job and whats more you didn't have a tiler even look at it. It is also perfectly possible that in the 18 months between the work being completed and remedial works being carried out that the sub base could have deteriorated to the point that the tiles are debonding and could have been securely fixed when the job was originally completed.

My opinion is that blame for the job going wrong lies on both parties and as has been said you just need to bite the bullet and get someone in who knows what they are doing.

[Diwabl]

Hello! Thanks for your responses. Trust Xmas has been good to you all!

(@Colour Republic) Now I've responded to the points you raised, I'd be interested to hear what you think?

I'd also be interested to see other peoples opinions. Please note that this person does advertise himself as a 'Plaster and Builder' and lists skills in wall and floor tiling and brickwork and pointing in his Checkatrade listing, which is why I employed him. I've highlighted these bits in the screenshot, but they do look a bit small.