DIY tiling failed twice. Third time lucky?

[Mr Red]

All 4 tiles on the top of my bathroom window recess came loose two years after they were professionally installed.

I thought I'd give tiling a go and replace them. I used Wickes ready mixed adhesive and within a fortnight they had all come loose again and on investigation the adhesive had not adhered to the tile. Maybe this was the length of time I was working the adhesive or perhaps the damp from a shower caused problems.

So I tried again this time using BAL rapid setting adhesive. Initially I found it so runny that it would not adhere to the recess above my head and went off so quickly that it became a messy disaster. I stuck one tile down before the remaning adhesive went off. I seem to remember reading that rapid setting is for pros who can work fast.

So I need to have another go. Before anyone asks I'm not ready to give in and ask a professional. Yet.

I think I need a cement based adhesive due to the damp environment. Can anyone help me with some advice and encouragement please? Ideally I'd like to use the shower (the window is next to the shower) within 24 hours of fixing.

[Chop]

I'd be looking at using a high grab adhesive for them by now, I wouldn't fancy having to pick one of those tiles out of my foot if it came down while I was in the shower!

Something like http://www.everbuild.co.uk/stixall/stix-all suitable for damp environments and cures in 24 hours.

[royaloakcarpentry]

There is hardly any adhesive on the tiles apart from a couple of blobs, no wonder they fell down.

Rapid set or normal set cement based adhesive is not runny when mixed, so you didn't mix correctly either.

Clean back the reveal of adhesive. Use a cement based adhesive and apply to reveal and also the back of the tile. Just needs a flat smear of adhesive covering the back of tile 100%. Then stick them up. You can always use a piece of plasterboard and some props to keep them up as the adhesive sets.

[Mr Red]

There is hardly any adhesive on the tiles apart from a couple of blobs, no wonder they fell down.

Rapid set or normal set cement based adhesive is not runny when mixed, so you didn't mix correctly either.

Clean back the reveal of adhesive. Use a cement based adhesive and apply to reveal and also the back of the tile. Just needs a flat smear of adhesive covering the back of tile 100%. Then stick them up. You can always use a piece of plasterboard and some props to keep them up as the adhesive sets.

I really did mix the correct ingredients to a smooth paste. It probably wouldn't have dripped off a vertical wall but the bottom of a horizontal one was too much for it. Is there any reason why I shouldn't put adhesive straight onto the tile and fix the tile in position?

[Mr Red]

I'd be looking at using a high grab adhesive for them by now, I wouldn't fancy having to pick one of those tiles out of my foot if it came down while I was in the shower!

Something like http://www.everbuild.co.uk/stixall/stix-all suitable for damp environments and cures in 24 hours.

That looks like a simple solution for a couple of tiles. What's the downside? Cost I guess.

[Chop]

Not at all, you're looking at a fiver for a tube.

It's far from a professional finish and I wouldn't normally recommend it, but it would work in your case.

[kingnewport]

Clean the old stuff. Get sum tidy adhesive. BAL , it shouldn't be runny. Give good coverage , Stuck um up and use 2 bits of timber to support the tiles. Use 1 piece across the tiles and the other to prop it all up.
Just check to see if it's damp too, just in case

[Mr Red]

I'm assuming it was my fault the tiles fell down rather than the adhesive so I stuck the tiles back up with some Unibond ready mixed and fixed them in place with two pieces of wood. It's a real awkward space to apply adhesive. Hopefully I won't report back with any more loose tiles...

[royaloakcarpentry]

Unibond readymixed...........B&Q rubbish.

Hold your breath and hope for the best.

[Mr Red]

Unibond readymixed...........B&Q rubbish.

Hold your breath and hope for the best.

Well I hope it holds, it looks good if I say so myself. I used Unibond grout too. Do you have any evidence for it being rubbish?

[Chop]

We'll keep everything crossed for you Red.

[wine~o]

Well I hope it holds, it looks good if I say so myself. I used Unibond grout too. Do you have any evidence for it being rubbish?

Basically there are 2 main types of addy, the ready mixed (Like unibond) which rely on air to dry them...

Or cementatious (Sp?) based addy, which dries by chemical reaction ( Infinitely better )

Obviously air cannot get behind the tiles to fully dry them...especially if they are in a damp environment and with larger tiles...

[tictic]

Looks like its..plywood you have there as a substrate,.....if so that's what your problem ..IS...


Thermal shock...I.e..

Movement/heat also....

Either take out or overboard with 6mm b/board an then re-tile..

[Mr Red]

Chop: Thanks!

wine~o: Thanks for clarifying. I tried to use cementious adhesive for this reason but got in a mess with the fast drying stuff so gave up. Next time.

tictic: I believe that is plasterboard rather than plywood.

Anyhow six days after grouting a crack has appeared next to one tile and the grout has shrunk, almost imperceptibly, away from the plastic trim on its neighbour. This is a bad thing because it looks like a poor finish and presumably will allow water vapour under the tiles where is may eat away the adhesive.

What could cause this? I'm wondering:

Movement of the window frame: there doesn't seem to be any.
Shrinkage of the grout?
Water on the grout before it has dried completely? Was my cleaning sponge too damp?
My DIY skills: I used the grout well within its working time and tried to pack it in well.
The grout? Should I try again but this time use cementious grout rather than readymix Unibond.

[tictic]

It's......plywood....


looking at your first pick and your last pic.......if that was plasterboard.....your last pic in first post would be a totall mess....after scraping all the old adhesive off.....



plywood....