stair creakings

jaybee · Post by **jaybee** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:13 am

What causes the creaking sound at each step I take up my stairs?

I use to have the stairs carpeted. I've changed them to a beautiful oak wooden step and now they creak like the dickens and are very noisy when walking up them.

Is there anyway to diminish the loud creaking sound?

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:54 am

It is the way that staircases are constructed. Rebates are cut into the stringers, or side rails, to fit the treads and risers. These rebates are cut in a way to allow wedges to be glued into place to hold each step firmly in place. There are also gussets to reinforce the the inside joint of the step.

Wood is a hygroscopic material and it will absorb moisture and dry out according to conditions. Often this might mean that joints no longer hold as firmly and slight movement permits a creak on joints. As there are so many joints it is difficult to actually determine where the creak is coming from. If you can get under the stairs and get someone to stand on each step you may be able to determine where the movement is.

You say that you have changed them to oak treads and by this I suspect that the oak treads have been laminated to the originals? This presents another flex and movement to contend with. I suspect it is wood on wood movement here.

I really do not think you can eliminate this entirely...have you thought about carpeting them

DWD

jaybee · Post by **jaybee** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:18 am

I got rid of the carpet to have the wooden stairs. They are beautiful.

These stairs were put in just a year ago and even then were quite noisy.
Must have not been a very good carpenter to allow for such joint movement.

Anyway to tighten the joints if I can determine the movement location?

owen · Post by **owen** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:00 am

you need to access the underneath as DWD has said. then you can identify where the creak is coming from and try to remove the wedges, re-glue them and hammer then in tighter.

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:17 am

Are the oak treads solid oak ones fitted into the stringers as replacements to the originals?
or are they a thinner oak board overlaying the existing treads?
Has this been a complete new staircase done in oak perhaps?
Need more information.

I would say that if the staircase is comprising its original stringers which has been altered to accommodate new oak treads then this has obviously been done in situ.
Therefore more than likely the wedges below the treads have not been hammered in tight enough to fully support the treads under load, and as a result creeeeeeeeeeeek.

Have the wedges even been glued? they should be!!!
I Can only add to what everyone else so far has said and that is to get under the stair and look and listen whilst someone else is walking on it at least you can pinpoint where the creaks are coming from.
If the underside of the stair has been plasterboarded then im afraid you will have to remove this before you can do anything.

jaybee · Post by **jaybee** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:35 am

I would say that if the staircase is comprising its original stringers which has been altered to accommodate new oak treads then this has obviously been done in situ.
Therefore more than likely the wedges below the treads have not been hammered in tight enough to fully support the treads under load, and as a result creeeeeeeeeeeek.
Have the wedges even been glued? they should be!!!

Thanks everyone for your advice so far.
It will be difficult to look underneath without knocking out a under-the-stair closet wall.
Is there a way to check the wedges without going underneath the staircase?
They probably were not glued. I think the person doing the job rushed it to finish it on time.

I do believe the staircase is comprised of the original stringers with new oak treads.

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:49 am

There isn't really any way of checking the wedges without being under the stair other than a visual inspection of the tread where it is fitted into stringer.
What to do is look closley at where the tread and stringer meet.
Now as said before get someone to walk on the stair as you are looking.
Pay particular attention to the ones that are creaking in this case that may very well be all of them.
Now if there is a visible amount of movement in the tread then there you have it:
Proof that the wedges need tightened.
Sometimes the movement can be so small though that you will hardly notice it but still hear a creak.
I have repaired a few staircases suffering from this in my time Usally old staircases which used to be glued with old scotch glue and have had a high success rate with repairing them.
Eliminating every creek can be a frustrating process which you may never achieve but im sure that you can make a huge improvement to what you have at the moment.

jaybee · Post by **jaybee** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:16 am

I'll give it a go this week.
Thank you!

Hoovie · Post by **Hoovie** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:17 am

Quick Question .... is it a good idea to use screws to secure Treads to Risers where the wedges are loose or missing?

My old staircase (from 1930's house) used to creak a fair bit and checking underneath seemed to be missing wedges - P&D screwed riser and tread together and it did fix the creaks

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:10 pm

The design of the wedged joint is there to cope with movement, both through wood expanding and contracting and traffic up and down the stair case. The load is spread through each tread into the adjoining risers so potentially there is a movement at the wedge joint and the lip joint between tread and riser. The chocks underneath reinforce the tread/riser joint but also allow a little give.

Now days you see MDF used for treads and risers to help stability and stringers are usually made up of laminated redwood. If your staircase has been made out of oak I suspect that the wood was not given time to acclimatise to the home so any shrinkage is minimised when the stair case is wedged up. He may have used ordinary PVA glue which I never think bonds oak to oak that well in this sort of job.

If you can get access underneath then there are lots of suggestions to help put this right. You could fill the cupboard with expanding foam

DWD

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:14 pm

Re. hoovies Question
Dont think that screwing risers to treads would be a good idea, especially on a modern stair.
Most modern stairs these days are constructed with mdf risers which will not accept taking a screw into edge very well especially due to the thinness of the material.
On an old old staircase the chances are that likely the risers are made from a solid board as opposed to todays usual spec of mdf or ply also they may be slightly thicker also in which case as a last resort you may get away with screwing to each other as a quick fix.
it wouldn't look very professional though.
But hey once the carpets down whos to know...

petengade · Post by **petengade** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:35 pm

When I made staircases wedges were glued with scotch glue and glue blocks where risers fitted into the tread grooves and were not supposed to move, saw a dodge just lately to stop creaking, put talcum powder on stairs and brush it in, if it does not work at least the stairs will smell nice

Tryanything · Post by **Tryanything** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:53 am

Could do with more details

1 Is it a complete new staircase ?

2 Was the staircase taken out and new treads and risers put
into the old stair strings ?

3 Was the old staircase left in situ and new treads and risers
fixed onto the old treads and risers, if so were the nosings
cut off the old treads ?

Picures always help