ceramic tile over vinyl over black mastic/glue

[jape]

I have googled and most say it is a definite no. However American Tile Council says yes if solid substrate. Good old Google, many opinions. Hoping experienced people here will add to debate so I can decide.

300 x 300 x 6mm ceramic tiles for small kitchen floor area approx. 3x2m square.
Underneath loose vinyl sheet, removed, is thin vinyl tiles on a black mastic/glue.
These tiles are well fixed, solid. Tried removing, tops crack out with difficulty, leaving grey underpart. If that is removed by chiselling, leaves thin black glue/sealer/mastic ( don't know what) on concrete.

The black stuff is right into pores of concrete. Very hard scraping took five minutes to remove a few centimetres. Would take ages to remove and still leaves a thin skin in concrete.

I have read that a flexible adhesive, thin bed, would be fine straight over the (scarified) vinyl and preferable to over the black. Also read the black may have asbestos in so very wary of long tedious removal job if flexible adhesive would work over vinyl. It is a thin, hard vinyl.

Best adhesive? Had tilers use a blue plasticy tile adhesive once that stayed flexible to an extent after dry. Dried grey but still blue inside. Would stick anything to anything. In various places they stuck slate to chipboard, cement sheet, wood, plasterboard, metal, concrete. Not one fault in twenty years. Anyone know what it may be?

[jape]

No advice? Quiet forum. Ok, sod tiling and all that work then without professional or experienced people giving ideas, too risky and expensive to waste time and money, I will lay a vinyl floor sheet for now. Got enough on in other rooms to keep me busy and worried! Was sure this black stuff would have appeared in other diy projects here and be known but maybe it is just in this old terrace!

[Wes]

I'm obviously not a tiler Jape, but I'll give you my pennies worth, which might in hand encourage a tiler to come and put me straight

The tiles you refer to are likely Marley tiles. Typical rule of thumb is to remove them. Ceramic tiles expand and contract which in turn will put a shear force on the adhesive and may potentially lift/pop the Marley tiles. Often these type of tiles seem solid, but will take very little to lift/shatter/debond given a swift whack with a hammer (simply showing that they can pop). These types of tiles do blow/fail sometimes too, without help. Just a word of caution.

If you go over the top of them, all you're doing is taking a gamble. It's up to you how you reconcile the effort of lifting the Marleys and grinding away the residue*, to the cost of the tiles now and potential cost of replacing them should they fail. You may feel that's a risk you're prepared to take.

*Again, typically the residue should be ground off (at least 75%). Any that doesn't come off with grinding has earned the right to stay

You could then go over that with an appropriate adhesive (following manufacturers preparation and application guidelines), or with an appropriate smoothing compound, then adhesive.

Here's some info in relation to removal of the tiles http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentia ... rtiles.htm..

[kingnewport]

You can self level over the black stuff. It's a nightmare. I used a breaker on mine

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[jape]

Thanks all. Tried a bolster and club hammer. Took ages to do a six inch area and my back won't stand all the bending! It is a sound surface, there must be an adhesive would take!!!!!

But after discussion with client (she who rules), she accepted my lack of masculinity and testosterone fuel for this task and is looking at good quality vinyl! Phew! Won't let me use the pretend chequer plate stuff to alleviate my lack of will and blokiness, but hey, still a win even if she goes for pretend terrazo or plastic floorboards!

[kingnewport]

I'm sure there is an adhesive that goes over it. You got away with it this time

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[Razor]

I've gone over those tiles many times, it's fine with a decent quality adhesive like BAL.

Removing them brings it's own risks as they have a small asbestos content although they are fine if not disturbed.

But if the missus is happy with Vinyl then go with it