my latest batch off energy saving led bulbs

[big-all]

bought 4 x9w and 4 x12w rated as 620 and 730 lumens
now a 100w incandescent is about 1300 lm
they claim around 70w and 80w value that may be a little optimistic but there is good news
measured the consumption off the 9w at 1=4w 2=4.6 1=4.8 and the 12w at 5.6-5.8w so good outputs for the wattage
again these bulbs are a small voltage range at 220-240v so in my thoughts help them to be more efficient
they took 2 weeks to arrive from hk
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B22-BC-Bayone ... D100102%26

[Rorschach]

If it's rated 9W but only uses 4.6, isn't that a complete con, half the rated output?

[kellys_eye]

Yup, 9W is 9W and anything less means they've robbed you!

[wine~o]

A lot of these suppliers are specialists in applying a "ce" sticker....

[big-all]

chineese export

[big-all]

Yup, 9W is 9W and anything less means they've robbed you!

that is surely only relevant to the led consumption at rated voltage off the chip rather than the input voltage and wattage

[kellys_eye]

Problem is deciding what to take notice of. If they specify a particular lumen output the fair enough - but can you measure the lumens to prove their stated spec?

If they state its 'power' to be 9W then that's what it should be consuming - and converting that 9W to light. This is the usual metric by which LED bulbs are sometimes rated at.

There are a load of Youtube videos showing LED bulbs that are claimed to be 'x' watts but are actually 'y' watts (i.e. significantly lower in their stated power) but few of those videos actually compare or complain about the actual light output as this is harder to discern.

You made you purchase based on a specified rating and if that rating isn't met then they're diddling you.

[big-all]

going by my personal observations there lumen claims where ok as far as i could tell with perhaps 10-20% over claimed with compatible bulb size
but as the consumption is half the rated then a say 15w at 7.5 would be a good 80w replacement with most bulbs to equal a 100w bulb being 12-15w actual it would be great to get one at 9-10w
now its not the power used its the dissipated heat thats the problem
failures are far smaller the bulb can be smaller the heat sink can be far smaller or not needed if you reduce the wattage by 20-30%

[kellys_eye]

Personal observations really don't work - lumens is rated on beam width and distance (viewing point) as well as the actual LED rating so without accurate measuring equipment it's not really feasible to quote subjective brightness between types/models/makes.

If the devices were sold (or purchased) on the straightforward basis that you either accept the light it produces or you don't (and in your case you DO accept them!) then it's fair enough. But to sell them on a given 'spec' but not meet that spec is downright deceit.

I mentioned manufacturers rigging their specs (within, possibly, acceptable limits) in another thread and this is a good example. It may even be that your LED bulb has a power factor of 0.5 so the measured 4.5W is actually 9W (real power) but again, without the right equipment we're none the wiser.

The key to longevity in any LED bulb is their efficiency in heat dissipation rather than their actual output as LEDs are very short-lived if they overheat. Obviously you can increase the actual efficiency of the LED and get more light for the same heat but progress in that area is slow.

Until they settle on one way to define LED-equivalent bulb specs then we'll always have this problem of making direct comparisons between types - the manufacturers continue to 'win' as they sell stuff that is, basically, deceiving the purchasers one way or another.

But so long as the customer is satisfied with their purchase - and many don't even question the actualities, but only ever make complaints when the goods fail - then nothing will be done to properly regulate the market.

I have a suspicion that something 'new' will come along soon to make this all redundant - except that you'll have to change all your LEDs to the new types b-a Don't ask me 'what' this new thing is though... it's just a 'feeling'.

You gets what you pays for.....

[big-all]

all my observations are taking whats in front off me and comparing to what i have
i am not being manipulated or fooled i am making a comparason with what i have and there claims and my observations
i have already expressed my thoughts on inaccuracy or visual difference in the percieved bulb output
you can tell me what ever you like but if my eyes say that bulb is brighter than the other bulb statistics that is not important as perception to the individual is more important

[kellys_eye]

I admire your fortitude and determination b-a. Energy saving seems to be your particular forte, lighting in particular, and the effort you make (plus the results you post) are always interesting to note.

I'm just a finicky old bu99er and like to nitpick the minutia due to my technical background - it has no real bearing on the good work you do

[jg]

I've recently had a few LED lamps of various form factors from toolstation that are quite impressive.
Most of them give the incandescent wattage equivalent in the description which obviously not accurate, but does give some indication of the relative performance.

I've done no scientific measurements on them, but like b-a, they are good enough at a price that makes them cheap enough to try.

£7.49 5xLED 5W GU10 Lamp
70914
Can't find this on the site now, but they're 50w halogen bright :) beam angle could be better, but is better than some of the ebay ones I used to have a few years back.

I got a couple of these at £8 each a few months back,
now they're £4
FEELS Brighter than an old 60w, they claim 75w which sounds right.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lightin ... GLS/p14618