Makita 18V battery lifespan

[ebetra]

Hi.

I've been wondering what is the average lifespan of a makita 3-4 ah 18V battery.
I have a approx. 5 years old 3ah battery which no longer can be recharged with the makita charger. Even though it can be charged with basic car battery charger.

A seller once told me that there is certain amount of downloads until the battery closes itself, even though it would be still fully functionable.

Is there any way to avoid the makita charger from recognizing this particular battery and still be re-charged?

I know the batteries doesnt cost much but I just want to try tricks

[big-all]

if its a li-ion battery never charge except via the correct charger
car charger 12v battery 18v so how does that work ??

[ebetra]

Yes it is a Li-ion battery, but the correct charger refuses to charge it.

The 12V battery charger gauge started from 2/8 AMPS and it took about an hour to the gauge to show 100% charge
My dad did this earlier and told me it was charged, but I am not sure how full can it be charged via the car battery charger.

ps. forgive me for not understanding too much about electrical installations etc.

[big-all]

ok you cannot correctly charge the battery the way you are doing it
does the battery run the tool correctly
what you are doing can possibly be very dangerous as the battery need very specific charging completely different to a car battery

[Job and Knock]

A seller once told me that there is certain amount of downloads until the battery closes itself, even though it would be still fully functionable.

AFAIK that's another urban myth. Lithium batteries self discharge at the rate of 1.5% to 2% per month if left untouched, faster if then charge is low and/or the weather is very warm. On average, research suggests, lifetimes consist of 1000 cycles for any lithium cell regardless of manufacturer, although battery performance is rarely specified for more than 500 cycles by the manufacturer. This means that batteries of mobile phones in daily use are not expected to last longer than three years. Which seems about right in my experience. Degredation in terms of holding charge is generally at the rate of 8 to 10% per annum. All I know is that 4 to 5 years of trade use seems to be the point at which Li-Ions have had enough because they aren't holding sufficent power to give a reasonable amount of run time

Is there any way to avoid the makita charger from recognizing this particular battery and still be re-charged?

No. A chip in the battery has been marked "bad" three times by the charger and that's that I'm afraid. The main reason the chip has been given a "strike" is generally that the battery has been overheated tpo much (by using on an angle grinder, large diameter hole saw, etc). Also if the single cell which powers that chip (and which draws power continuously from that singe cell) is allowed to totally drain the cell then the chip, which has to be kept "hot" will shut down. Permanently. Because Li-Ion batteries are a lot more volatile (read "potentially dangerous") than NiCds o NiMH most manufacturers have some form or other of safety control like this built-in to ensure that the batteries don't self-combust and burn your house down. Damaged batteries or poor charger control can do all sorts of rum things (as evidemced by the number of hoverboard incidents last year)

In terms of batteries like the Makita LXT batteries, NEVER CHARGE THEM ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE OEM CHARGER OR A PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMMABLE BATTERY CONDITIONING UNIT. It is dangerous and the battery can go on fire if it gets too hot. Makita LXT chargers have built-in fans to keep the cells cool whilst charging and the charger senses the battery state and adjusts the charging cycle appropriately. If you charge a Li-Ion battery too quickly it can catch fire and once alight it will be exceedingly difficult to put out. In the early days of Makita LXT systems about 12 years or so back there were indeed a few battery charger fires which resulted in Makita very rapidly issuing a revised battery charger

[ebetra]

Okay thanks for the warnings and info, I had better stop using any other charger then
In the Makita reseller store they said that the battery is about 5 years old, and has come to its end.

[big-all]

in general a battery will loose perhaps 15-25% off its capacity every year so after 5 years it may indeed have failed it may indeed still have about 60% capacity still left all depends on battery quality storage and use
there are so many variables but the only constant after 2 years old i wouldnt buy a second hand battery without running it through a cycle first
and when you see on ebay some one with a volt meter and an 18v battery showing about 21v it means absolutely nothing except the battery will take a charge thats because a battery will be charged about 20% overvoltage it can be as low as 5% capacity but because it has just come off the charger it still has capacity

[camallison]

A seller once told me that there is certain amount of downloads until the battery closes itself, even though it would be still fully functionable.

AFAIK that's another urban myth. Lithium batteries self discharge at the rate of 1.5% to 2% per month if left untouched, faster if then charge is low and/or the weather is very warm. On average, research suggests, lifetimes consist of 1000 cycles for any lithium cell regardless of manufacturer, although battery performance is rarely specified for more than 500 cycles by the manufacturer. This means that batteries of mobile phones in daily use are not expected to last longer than three years. Which seems about right in my experience. Degredation in terms of holding charge is generally at the rate of 8 to 10% per annum. All I know is that 4 to 5 years of trade use seems to be the point at which Li-Ions have had enough because they aren't holding sufficent power to give a reasonable amount of run time

Is there any way to avoid the makita charger from recognizing this particular battery and still be re-charged?

No. A chip in the battery has been marked "bad" three times by the charger and that's that I'm afraid. The main reason the chip has been given a "strike" is generally that the battery has been overheated tpo much (by using on an angle grinder, large diameter hole saw, etc). Also if the single cell which powers that chip (and which draws power continuously from that singe cell) is allowed to totally drain the cell then the chip, which has to be kept "hot" will shut down. Permanently. Because Li-Ion batteries are a lot more volatile (read "potentially dangerous") than NiCds o NiMH most manufacturers have some form or other of safety control like this built-in to ensure that the batteries don't self-combust and burn your house down. Damaged batteries or poor charger control can do all sorts of rum things (as evidemced by the number of hoverboard incidents last year)

In terms of batteries like the Makita LXT batteries, NEVER CHARGE THEM ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE OEM CHARGER OR A PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMMABLE BATTERY CONDITIONING UNIT. It is dangerous and the battery can go on fire if it gets too hot. Makita LXT chargers have built-in fans to keep the cells cool whilst charging and the charger senses the battery state and adjusts the charging cycle appropriately. If you charge a Li-Ion battery too quickly it can catch fire and once alight it will be exceedingly difficult to put out. In the early days of Makita LXT systems about 12 years or so back there were indeed a few battery charger fires which resulted in Makita very rapidly issuing a revised battery charger

In my career, I was involved in the development and eventual production of Li-Ion batteries. I agree fully with what Job and Knock has said, ESPECIALLY NOT TO USE ANY CHARGER OTHER THAN THAT SUPPLIED. When we tested and overcharged mobile phone batteries, the result was a VERY hot flame about 2 feet long. Imagine the flame from an 18v Makita tool battery We almost destroyed one of our fire test bunkers with one.

Colin