Solar income

[stevegrass777]

In my own opinion it's better to invest in bluefield solar income with a near 7% yield than putting the panels on your roof.For one you can drip feed money in at whatever rate you want say £50 a month or just put the required amount of money in to cover the cost of your green electricity bill,if you have enough.Also you can reinvest your dividend until you have built up enough shares.
The other upside is no maintenance on the panels or the roof underneath.
I just think it's a much better way.
What are your thoughts?

[kellys_eye]

No paying the rent-seekers in order to stop this appalling waste of taxpayers money would be my preferred method.

Either way the 'scam' is coming to an end given the inherent and unnecessary (unaffordable) expense it incurs.

[stevegrass777]

"No paying the rent seekers" I don't quite understand.
Maybe you mean stop subsidising solar energy,it's hard for one person to do that.
I'm on about getting a better income from your hard earned savings than giving it to a bank for a pittance,or giving it to a solar panel installer for a 20 year payback.

[kellys_eye]

The 'rent seekers' ARE the solar panel installers!

I fully understand peoples need for income from investment but this is how the 'system' is prolonged - either way it's taking money from the (poorer) masses and giving to those who can already afford it no matter how you look at it.

Politics aside there are only a few real investment opportunities out there now but I'd be considering converting 'cash' into hard assets rather than investments that seem ever more likely to fall victim to a market collapse than ever before. The 20-year payback 'promise' can (and likely will) be curtailed by Government when the money runs out.

[stevegrass777]

Unfortunately we are stuck with a capitalist system and there isn't much we can do about that,also it is the best of a bad bunch as regards systems in my opinion.
I agree that hard assets are a good choice but they can go down in value also,and a high income producing investment that is backed by rock solid fit contracts with government and income from the electricity produced its impossible for the government to get out of these without paying massive compensation claims I would have thought,what is done is done,weather we agree with it or not is irrelevant,they will have to pay it for the agreed time frame.
Also new contracts are going to to be scaled down fit payments from April from what I have read so the old contracts could go up in value.
I still think it's worth considering over strapping panels to the roof as the income is at least as good without the hassle,and the cost can be staggered rather than one lump up front.
This link shows the statistics of electricity and gas kWh prices throughout Europe.
We are not the dearest of the developed world or the cheapest,but the two dearest do seem to be the greenest countries Denmark and Germany.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics ... statistics

[kellys_eye]

Any investment in solar installation must take into account repayment time and by all reports I've read/heard so far this extends into many years (if ever - especially if your system goes mammaries-up in the interim).

I'd love to see a country-wide HONEST survey on cost-benefit

[Someone-Else]

Just wondering..................

Solar panels on your roof are great, free leccy for ever, no running costs, once you get your money back you are "quids in"

Well that's what you hear?

Seems as most things it's not strictly true true.
The solar panels could never have been tested for the 25+ years lifespan because 25 years ago, these ones did not exist. (yes solar panels did, but not ones like this)

Also, like your house windows get dirty over time so will the solar panels. Simple. wash them. Do you want to go up there and wash them? I don't (yes it may only be you must do it once every 5 years, but how much will it cost for proper access equipment?)

Solar panels are 12v may be 24v or even 36v (depending on configuration) but not mains voltage. You need an inverter? Well you can't use an ordinary inverter because (and here is the bit you didn't even think of) As I understand it, and I may be slightly wrong, If there is a power cut, your inverter has to switch off, so you get a power cut too. Its so that in a power cut your supply can not feed back into the grid keeping everything live. Now it may be that newer inverters will still power your house but feed back into the grid. All that aside, it seems that inverters don't last as long as you may hope, on average they cost £1k and last around 10 years.

So that means that every 10 years you have to buy an inverter, and pay for some one to install it.

So to me, in summary you have to spend a fair few £K in the first place, every 5 years pay to have the panels washed, and every 10 years change the inverter. Just to save money? If I lived in a nice sunny country, or even in Cornwall I would consider it, but here in Bedfordshire. No thanks.

Yes, I may be wrong on some or all points, let's discuss.........

[stevegrass777]

Up to now the shares in bsif have gained around 15% and would still be paying you 7% yield so up to now they have kicked buying solar panels yourself into touch.

[kellys_eye]

Share prices these days seldom reflect the true worth (or value) of any company.

Just looked at BSIF annual accounts (latest being for 2016) and note that their operating profit fell from £15.9m (2015) to £8.6m (2016) yet their share price has risen 15% ????

Either they are making some outrageous claims for future profitability or someone is cranking up their worth beyond reality. For a fact their 'stock' (assets) must FALL over time - due to solar panel deficiencies - and I suspect their current value is ONLY on the back of FiTs - whether they remain at their current level is anyone's guess irrespective of 'government guarantees'.....

The stock market is widely recognised to be manipulated - good luck to anyone prepared to risk it. 99% of investors will lose out when it all comes crashing down

But, as they say, your shares can go up as well as down......

[stevegrass777]

Underlining earnings went from 17.3 million 2015 to 20.9 million 2016
The fit contracts with the government still stand as they are written contracts,obviously new contracts will depend on government changes ect but can't effect old contracts.
In fact old contracts can be worth more as they are sort after assets.
But the rock solid dividend will underpin the share price no matter what goes on in the stock market in my opinion.
The dividend target will be surpassed this year,and goes up with RPI .
When I said this was a better prospect than installing your own solar Panels,I still think it is.
No hands on maintenance,no pricey fitting cost,just a good dividend without the hassle.
Many people don't like the stock market,but reality is if you leave money in the bank they make money off your money and give you pittance for it.
I have always invested my own money and done very well,cash isa returns make me laugh,you may as well put it under the mattress for what they give out.

[kellys_eye]

Much of what you say is true - the stock market being a finicky place to invest is why the returns can be so good, if you're prepared to take the risks.

But as for solar? Worldwide, the performance of many solar projects has been abysmal - even in the sunniest of climates - and we read of many, many projects going under - one of the most high profile being that about to be taken over by Elon Musk (that sucker-up of US taxpayers money) where his cousins(?) solar company has effectively gone bust but the Musk 'name' is being used to resurrect it for more short-term gain via the taxpayer.....

I still believe the old adage - if it's too good to be true then there's something fishy going on. BSIF may be doing well now and I wish you well in your investment but as soon as you hear anything untoward you'd better get out fast. Something has my spidey-sense going wild about them......

[stevegrass777]

They took some operators over and invested a lot before the fit payments contracts changed in April,but I think around half of there income comes from the price of electricity so as electricity prices go up so do profits.The price of panels has come down dramatically over the years so buying and installing does seem to bring in around 6% returns for normal domestic installations.
The difference with industrial scale installations is you get economies of scale,and big companies can also us very cheap borrowing at %2 interest and the make 6-7% out of them,they don't make panels they just run them and us a bit of finance to increase scale.
So I don't think anything fishy is going on,just generating solar power on a bigger scale than households can do.
I do have this in two portfolios I run (farthers and wife's) I will add it to mine shortly.
If you take a long term view holding shares can be very profitable,and you manage risk by holding some none correlated stocks or stocks like this one that are a bond proxy,or having cash spare to invest during down turns.
As a shareholder you are a small partner in a business,if that business does well and makes money so do you,I do like dividend payers and out of favour sectors or companies that have fallen on a temporary bad patch.

[stevegrass777]

Bit of an update,these are up around 17.5-18% since I first mentioned them,and the dividend has been increased as well.
Very pleased with the progress,it’s been very steady but that’s a good thing in my view.
I think this has performed far better than buying solar panels yourself along with increasing income and no maintenance to do it’s beaten owning your own,which is what I wanted to achieve.

[stevegrass777]

Well bluefield solar income is up 28% as of today and its share price is very steady especially in times of turmoil.
I suppose its a bond proxy so that's probably why its so stable,classed as solid income.
The income keeps rolling in and has increased along the way.
It's definitely been better than owning solar panels on your own roof.

[kellys_eye]

It's not by virtue of proper investment or productivity that share prices are soaring - this is manipulation pure and simple. Many countries economies (perhaps the greater majority if not all) are seeing GDP increases in fractions of 1% and many even negative yet somehow share prices are rising? Not just rising but SOARING. Unbelievable. How does that work if both GDP and shares are supposedly linked?

Energy prices are rising? But the cost of energy has never been lower (coal, gas, oil prices etc) so the electricity price must be being 'forced' higher by other means - taxes, subsidies etc. You can't maintain share growth by constantly pushing up the prices ARTIFICIALLY as this creates the 'bubble' that is well talked about and all bubbles burst.

If you're wise and get your money out before that bubble bursts then good luck. Someone - MANY 'someones' - will not manage to do this and will end up considerably worse off than they started.

Besides being 'up 28%' is meaningly without context. £1 invested and 28p returned won't give you a great lifestyle. But £100k? £1m? - not a lot of people can do that........