a non sinusoidal output can it power a tv

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:15 am

a new toy arrived today a ryobi ry18bi150a its a 18v to 240v 150w converter, my main planned uses are intrnet router or tv and freeveiw recorder box in the shed is there likely to be a problem/clash explosion total load in the shed is around 60-80w thanks for looking
https://www.direct-powertools.co.uk/ryo ... 2x33928569

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:31 pm

Not being "funny" but short of putting an oscilloscope on it and putting it under a load test there is no way to know for sure, so I suggest you plug your TV into it and see what happens, so long as the load does not exceed 150 W in running it should be ok.

Why do you want to plug in a router? as a router will need access to the incoming phone line.

Do you mean a wi-fi extender?

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:41 pm

just though local power cut cant get internet without router working
yes mobile phone is connected but i dont do anything on line from my mobile apart from bbc weather

it was more the possibility off causing damage as i don't understand what non-sinusiodal actually is :dunno:

it actually says to check compatibility with the instruction sheet off the item to be plugged in

kellys_eye · Post by **kellys_eye** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:23 pm

The inverter output is a 'stepped sine wave' and in comparison to a true sine wave it is appallingly bad! That said, it's a hit'n'miss affair as to the damage it would do to 'sensitive' electronic equipment. personally I wouldn't use it for the type of electronics you mention.

That Ryobi jobbie will run for 40 minutes at 80W - if you're lucky. Plan to have a few pre-charged if you want an evenings viewing! My Screwfix suitcase gensets will power 500W for 4+ hours or, in your case 36 hours on a tank full (5 litres).

There is an even easier solution.

Most home routers operate from a DC power pack (wall wart) that will deliver 5V or 12V to the router - usually the latter. If it's 12V you can run it directly from a battery pack, whether this is a car battery or a simple 8-cell pack made from C or D-cells, your choice. You can even get little power converter modules to reduce the 18V Ryobi battery to 12V or 5V (they are adjustable) for only a few quid.

The same might apply to a small TV - I have a 21" full HD set with built-in Freesat and Freeview that cost £150-ish and is out go-to set during power cuts as it works from 12V DC.

Many ways to flog this cat b-a. Don't fall for the Ryobi solution as it is iffy at best, poor solution at worst.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:57 pm

ooo well
indeed thinking along the lines off whats simple just in case

used to get several cuts a year but none for ten
just though iff power goes off the shed has the wood burner so heat
lighting would be dewalt batteries and others and entertainment would be on a tv in the backgound doing some woodwork
although most machines in the shed are mains and i have 10 double sockets six off the 20 sockets have battery charges fairly permanently plugged in

all the main tools have battery versions so works well but i do love my tv on in the background for entertainment and amusement

i will just make out i am vulnerable and dont have a phone so they will leave a power back up for the router when the compulsory conversion to fibre happens as they keep asking to make a free appointment at no extra cost as a loyal customer

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:08 pm

run time probably far less with conversion up to 240 then back to say 12 the tv uses
if i tell you the tv model and the freeveiw box model can you tell me if it will be safe or is there no knowing ??
i think the actual consumption is more likly to be around 30w as the tv is 22w and the box is 13 as i like low volume and basic no hd black and white would do or even steam

Humax Freeview HDR-1800T 500GB Freeview+ HD Recorder786/545
Bush 24 Inch Smart HD Ready HDR Freeview TV 942/8463
from argos

Scotty001 · Post by **Scotty001** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:47 pm

Re powering the router, that's all well and good so long as the power cut doesn't affect the local telecoms cab too.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:54 pm

Scotty001 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:47 pm Re powering the router, that's all well and good so long as the power cut doesn't affect the local telecoms cab too.

the green box is 50 ft away is that still powered with fibre optics ??
the exchange is 1000yards/1kl away

kellys_eye · Post by **kellys_eye** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:56 am

Exchanges have battery backup in case of power failure but that only applies to copper connections that go directly there and, even then, the batteries might only keep it going for hours (could be days - I suppose it's exchange-dependent??). If you're on a fibre connection then those systems rely on mains power at the local box (cabinet) so a mains failure locally will take out any fibre-connected homes for as long as the power is off..... not sure if fibre cabinets have a UPS fitted :dunno:

Going a step back - modified squarewave (cheap inverters) have lots of harmonics that are usually filtered at the input of the equipment you are powering BUT the filters are only designed for 'slightly off' sine wave distortion - not 'massive' distortion as a modified squarewave can deliver. Such gross distortion can burn out the input filter.

Not many people realise this but equipment that is powered via an SMPS (switched mode power supply - most modern electronics is powered this way (caveat, not ALL though)) can be powered by DC. If you rectified the inverter output you'll get some 310V DC which is 'smooth' and goes straight in to most SMPS-powered equipment with zero issue! Such a rectifier can be built in to a standalone case (simple bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor) and used WITH CAUTION on 'sensitive' electronics.

But, to be safe, it's best to have the correct pure AC in the first place. I can't recommend the inverter-generators you can get for under £200 these days (new) enough. I have two rated at 750W and one at 2200W (plus a 7500W 'normal' genset set for the house).

But for a SHED..... nope. I'd go DC all the way (i.e. 12V - which you can also top up via solar if you're that needy for TV/internet in the shed!). TV, router, lights, tool charger even.... all on a decent car battery (or two).

kellys_eye · Post by **kellys_eye** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:05 am

Note - both your TV and Humax box state they come with external power packs so they are quite likely to be rated at 12V - check the power packs as they'll state the output voltage and current from those units. In which case I'd recommend you get a couple of buck/boost converters and run them directly from the battery - either the Ryobi (short term - the Ryobi s only rated at 54W/hours so the TV/Humax combo would only run for around 1 hour) or a car battery (small, ordinary car-sized, is 720W/hours - some 10-15 times longer run time).

<edit> for completeness; a buck converter is used to drop the input voltage to whatever is required i.e. can't put out a higher voltage than it takes in. Thsi would be required if you used a Ryobi battery (18V) and wanted a 12V output.

A boost converter can raise the input voltage to a level higher than the input so if your TV runs off 19V (typical laptop voltage) then a boost converter will turn a 12V input to 19V with ease.

Then there are buck/boost converters that do both the above task in one package - ever so slightly more costly but saves messing around with the different types. You can get buck/boost converters capable of outputting 400W (I'd keep it under 300 to be safe though) for around a tenner:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402363742321 ... SwqY5fOEAn

Slap it in a box, add a cable with connector for the type of battery you use and the correct power plug on the output and Robert's your Mother's Brother.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:05 am

thank you very much for your comprehensive reply it gives me a lot to think about thanks

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:34 am

for information only plugged them both into an energenie plug in meter at the same time and standby 1.5w and running 1/3 volume 26w 2/3 volume 26.5w didnt reduce the brilliance but expect that would knock a good few watts off
also its mains cable into the tv so seems a non-starter any way :dunno:

kellys_eye · Post by **kellys_eye** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:58 pm

If you're like me you might only have the TV on for the sound (mostly) and only look at the screen when your favourite (female) presenter comes on then look to get a much smaller set that works from 12V. Like I mentioned, we have a 21" set that is all singing and dancing but I'd be equally at home with one of those back-of-the-car-seat DVD player sized sets in my workshop. As time progresses all TV will be via the internet anyway so you might only need your internet connection and a tablet/laptop making life that much easier.

Key to all this is the unspoken assumption that power is either going to be expensive and/or sparsely available due to circumstances beyond our control - that's the position I take (a worst case scenario one) and plan accordingly. There's nothing to be lost by doing so and the advantages if the S really does hit the F is incalculable.

26 watts isn't a lot in the scheme of things but it would drain a Ryobi battery in 2 hours. Probably less if you were cautious about how low you let it go before recharging so find yourself a 12V car battery and charger instead - Lidl (or was it Aldi?) did a 150W inverter of the same type (stand-alone though) for under £30 (can't recall exactly but even that sounds like too much, it was probably £20-ish) which would work with a car battery. You'd get well over 24 hours continuous use of your TV setup using that arrangement.

Fit a small solar panel to recharge the car battery when you're not around and the whole setup will run 'for free'.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:01 pm

the tv wouldnt work without power to the house as theres two aerial boosters/distributors not worried about the tv internet bit i have never used it as the routers in the front room and no hardwired connection in the house
i never pay for content so record everything so i can skip through the adverts
i i am really stuck i could use my phone but not the same

i wonder iff with full fibre optic to the house my old cromecast dongly thing will work in the shed 60ft away ??
i am not overly bothered about getting them to work as we get minimal power cuts now it more building in flexibility with what i have to give me security and options
but thanks for your help so far anyway

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:24 pm

big-all wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:01 pmi wonder iff with full fibre optic to the house my old cromecast dongly thing will work in the shed 60ft away ??

Your dongle works via wi-fi, nothing to with if you have fibre or not.

I presume your internet service provider is not BT? I say this as they claim to have "even further wi-fi coverage" with their latest router. If you are not with BT you could always get a wi-fi extender. (It does what it says on the tin) You can even get ones that you plug into your mains at one end and plug in an Ethernet cable at the other (your shed)