IDEAL CLASSIC NF40 BOILER QUERY

[rautospoon]

Hi. I have the above boiler which was fitted as a "new build" 29 years ago. The boiler is now located in the loft of my bungalow on a "traditional" CH system.

The boiler has been well maintained and "serviced" annually.

I have a "service contract" and the boiler was not "firing up", caused by a defective fan, which the engineer "lubricated" today and is replacing tomorrow.

The boiler has given 29 years sterling service but would you recommend that the "time has come" to now replace it or alternatively just continue to maintain it as many (but not all) parts (such as fan, PCB and even heat-exchanger) are still available ?

I would add that I would wish to (just) replace the boiler with a "regular" boiler.

If replacement is recommdended is there (in these dumded down days) such a thing as the Rolls-Royce of CH boilers ?

(Don't suppose any modern boiler would last the 29 years of my old faithful NF40, which I understand have always been very well regarded by CH engineers ?)

All views and opinions very much welcomed.

Many thanks.

[wine~o]

Google Intergas boilers, they come with up to a 12 year guarantee...

[Someone-Else]

I may be in error, but I thought that intergas are indeed almost the rollsroyce of boilers, but they must be installed/maintained by an intergas trained person (Understandable) but that is the problem, intergas trained people are a dying breed.

I did a quick google, yes they do come with an UPTO warrantee, remember 3 years is UPTO 12 years

The Intergas Rapid offers only a three-year warranty, whereas aforementioned models like those of the Xclusive and ECO RF ranges come with 10 years on parts and labour.

All I can say is, choose wisely.

[wine~o]

a website wrote:
The Intergas Rapid offers only a three-year warranty, whereas aforementioned models like those of the Xclusive and ECO RF ranges come with 10 years on parts and labour.
All I can say is, choose wisely.

The Eco RF range when fitted with the Intergas filter gets an extra 2 years warranty. Servicing can be booked direct through the website. Agreed that not that many G/S engineers fit them, but if there is one near to the OP then it's the only boiler currently that has a 12Year warranty.

@OP although the eco RF is a "combi boiler" it is easily configured as a system boiler if u have a H/W tank, and when configured as Direct Hot Water Priority it's the most efficient boiler range available as if set up correctly will condense 100% of the time.

[rautospoon]

Many thanks for the recommendations of Intergas but no specific recommendation whether (as per my OP) to replace or (as may be required) to repair my existing boiler.

[Someone-Else]

My mother had a backboiler, must be 30+ years old (a genuine guess) it went wrong (Most unusual) when it was looked at it had "sprung a leak" and corroded (OK, her fault for NOT having it regularly serviced) my point being that it was assumed to be something minor that was wrong, but the facts were not known until the boiler was actually looked at, my point being, from this end of a keyboard, it is not possible to see your boiler.

but no specific recommendation whether (as per my OP) to replace or (as may be required) to repair my existing boiler.

Would that not depend on the actual condition of the boiler you have?

[rautospoon]

I will try and keep it simple.
If my boiler proves still to be "in good nick", would I (given the fact that it is 29 years old) be best to replace or (as may be subsequently required) repair ? Cost of replacement would not be an issue. Is there such a thing as a "natural life span" on a boiler such as this or could it "last for ever" ?!
(I will ask the engineer tomorrow to give me an assessment of its condition).
All I want is some "considered advice/opinion" from experienced CH engineers who "know about these things".
Thank you.

[wine~o]

All I want is some "considered advice/opinion" from experienced CH engineers who "know about these things".

errrm right, First I AM NOT A BOILER ENGINEER. CH Engineers vary in opinions...

What you need to look at (and only you can decide) is the cost of replacement vs. the cost of keeping...

Things to consider, Im guessing your current boiler plan costs a minimum of £20 a month or £240 per year ? .

This may or may not include a boiler service and repairs @ x amount and there will probably be an "excess" of a certain amount for repairs.

A new boiler will mean you can camcel the boiler plan saving £2,400 over 10 years minus the servicing costs, let's say £1,000 at todays prices..

Will your old boiler break down over the next 10 Years ? probably. Where is Mystic Meg when you need her ?

I believe (I could be wrong) that the boiler you currently have has a permanent "pilot light" that alone could be costing up to £200 per annum, or £2000 over 10 years. (at current gas prices)

The questions I would be asking... Am I going to stay in the same home for the forseeable ?

Will I save money in the time that I expect to be living here?

Can I afford it right now ?

I had a new Intergas fitted in November by one of our members (Razor) to replace an old boiler, my new boiler is about 95% efficient compared to the old one which was only 40 ish% efficient.

The only person that can decide is you.

[rautospoon]

This is totally not about cost, I am more intersted in "peace of mind" and I intend to stay here for the foreseeable.
My current service plan includes an annual service and all repairs with no excess and I have been delighted with it over the last 20 years or so it has been active.
I was just looking for any experienced CH engineers on this site that could possibly give their "two-penneth" ?
I am perfectly capable of deciding myself, just like to hear views and opinions from others.

[Razor]

They were around 70% efficient from new. A well installed modern boiler will be over 90%

Sadly most are not installed well and the average modern condensing boiler is running at closer to mid 80s efficiency.

Lets say that you get a good installer and put it on modern controls with priority hot water and you achieve the fabled 94% a modern boiler should be capable of.

You will use approximately 20% less gas on space heating. Only you know how much your monthly bill is and how long the pay back period will be.

Assuming you don't have a massive bill at the moment I would probably advise that you spend the money on other ways to make the home energy efficient. When you finally have to change the boiler you will still get the benefit of these upgrades.

PS the Ideal Classic is one of the best boilers ever made...

[Razor]

Oh, to answer an earlier query.

Intergas changed the rules years ago. Anyone that's Gas Safe registered can install one and get the full warranty you don't have to be trained.

Whatever you have installed just make sure it will do priority hot water to give two flow temps

[rautospoon]

Many thanks for all the informative replies, appreciated.
Is there any particular part(s) failure that is likely to cause the final termination of a 29 year old boiler ?
Do modern Ideal boilers have a good reputation, in other words "are they up there" ?
Please excuse more questions, I am just "interested to know" !

[ericmark]

They were around 70% efficient from new. A well installed modern boiler will be over 90%

Sadly most are not installed well and the average modern condensing boiler is running at closer to mid 80s efficiency.

That is unfortunately the problem, and of course if the system has electronic TRV's then it can reduce the energy used by any boiler. I was looking at a new tumble drier, they vary in price £300 to £3000, and if you look at a 7 year life expectancy then it would not matter how much the £3000 one saved in energy it would never pay for its self.

The same with boilers, at a fuel bill of in my case of around £350 this year, 90%-70%=20% so £70 per year, so at £2000 to fit a new boiler that's 28 years before it pays for its self. OK price of oil in my case, or gas in your case will likely rise, but if trying to save money, one needs to look at how much the upgrade can save, I am the same, already have non linked electronic TRV heads cost around £15 each in 2019, next stage would be linked heads to the wall thermostat, at £50 per head, and £200 for new wall thermostat unlikely to pay for its self. However comfort wise so rooms warm up faster as the TRV can tell boiler to start, may be worth it.

The oil boiler I am using does not modulate (turn down) but a modern gas one does, and having a gentle continuous heat means less hysteresis so saves energy and increases comfort, but for the gas boiler to do that, the controls need to be set so the boiler does in fact turn up/down not on/off, there are a few ways to do this, but it means TRV's, lock shield valves, and by-pass valves need to be set up correctly and maybe a wall thermostat/hub which reads what the TRV's are doing and turns the boiler up/down to suit.

The on/off thermostat can still turn off a modern boiler when summer approaches, but it does not control the room temperature, the room temperature is an analogue control, be it a wall thermostat connected to the boilers ebus as with OpenTherm or a TRV slowly opening and closing, or combination of both.

Also in the main modern boilers run cooler, and time to reheat a room from some eco setting to comfort setting is important, so to use the programmable TRV and linked wall thermostat connected to ebus to best, often you need higher output radiators.