Mr Bates and the Post Office ITV

[dewaltdisney]

This needs its own thread, I have watched the ITV docudrama Mr Bates and the Post Office through gritted teeth, it has made me so angry. I knew about his for years and I always believed that Horizon was dodgy as it had its roots in ICL a largely crap computer systems giant in the 80's. Fujitsu subsequently took over ICL and continues to this day to supply systems to the government. ICL was jokingly called 'It Comes Late' as the systems were often delayed and full of faults. There was little doubt that this was a major cover-up at the expense of the innocent to keep a defective system in operation as the alternative to shutting it down would have been impossible for management to consider. The drama has played out over four nights and it captures the whole thing really well showing the terrible traumas suffered by innocent sub Postmasters. There are some guilty bastards who have never had their comeuppance.

DWD

[Gadget]

I just watched the final episode, and I've set my TV to record a documentary about it all. The leading force (Alan Bates) should get some kind of medal for his dogged persistence and fighting for justice.

[etaf]

We watched all on catchup - yesterday and it made us very angry and i suspect the people in power , Politicians and Postoffice senior stuff should be put in prison for lying , but as with a lot of things NO real accountability or consequences , just Honours and promotions - Interesting Questions on newsnight last night to the dep Lib Dem about the lib dem leader, who was in the conservative party and post master general - and refused to meet with Alan or many occasions

i'll stop before i go to far..........

[big-all]

We watched all on catchup - yesterday and it made us very angry and i suspect the people in power , Politicians and Postoffice senior stuff should be put in prison for lying , but as with a lot of things NO real accountability or consequences , just Honours and promotions - Interesting Questions on newsnight last night to the dep Lib Dem about the lib dem leader, who was in the conservative party and post master general - and refused to meet with Alan or many occasions

i'll stop before i go to far..........

yes quite evil by "those in charge " who think nothing off profiteering whilst the rest off us muck in and get things done
often at great sacrifice notice over recent months rather than solve the problems they pass new laws to demonize from genuine asylum seekers to genuine people in despute in environmental and trade union dispute to criminalize children experimenting with legal gasses all be it using in a way not designed for

[dewaltdisney]

If you had seen it you would understand that this was not an issue of blatant profiteering it was more a matter of absolute belief that the system could not be faulty. They must have had doubts at some point but then a snowball of events collided and there was no way out. Having visited ICL on business back in the 80's I could well understand the total mess this system was. As for demonizing genuine asylum seekers there is no such thing. These people have traveled through several European countries to get to the soft touch UK why did they not claim asylum there? The small boats invariably have only young men on board who cannot be classified as asylum seekers. Most of Europe is waking up to this and many are considering Rwanda processing centres as a deterrent to economic migrants. This is all lefty eyewash.

DWD

[stevei]

I didn't watch it. I shouldn't get so worked up at my age. I did read quite a bit about it at the time and was disgusted at the way the post office handled the whole thing especially about the way they used the judicial system to their own advantage. I just hope that those responsible, including the lib dem leader, get the punishment they deserve.

[dewaltdisney]

It made me angry, sadly it has gone on too long to ensure the evidence needed is found and Post Office Counters is struggling for survival. I doubt that they could even pay any compo now. The gradual move to cashless systems by the public has seen the traffic in Post offices diminish considerably, now it is mostly postage that they deal with but even this is under threat from courier companies that are getting better and better. I think Horizon was a system born to fail and with its ICL roots the whole thing was doomed from the start. Never testing software properly it was always released far too soon with the operational problems faced on a firefighting basis. Horizon was supposed to replace Giro cheques for benefit claimants but the DHSS (now DWP) saw that it was useless and got out early. The system was then utilised for sub post office use and caused the ensuing havoc. The scene of the Fujitsu team dealing with the operational issues in the basement at Bracknell is probably close to reality. The Post Office must have known something was wrong as the paper based former system never had the number of fraud cases and someone should have seen the enormity of the situation. I think they started out accusing sub postmasters of fraud and then when realisation set in they were too far in to do the decent thing and admit the system was at fault. They bloody knew.

DWD

[wine~o]

Watching the last episode tonight, followed by the documentary.

I was well aware of the issues with Horizon years ago, not the first time that people have had disciplinary action due to IT faults. Far more extreme in this case though.

[APDIY]

How many times have I in past years taken a faulty “Special Offer” item back to the combine that supplied it to be told
“Nobody else has complained about this product. Are you sure that you’re using it according to the instructions?”
And there in the queue are others clutching the self same duff item.

[dewaltdisney]

It just shows what this ITV documentary has done. The public (re)awakening to this travesty has rightly caused a snowball of activity against Post Office Counters activities. I am sure that ITV did not intend for this to happen, I think they thought they were just producing an interesting docudrama. But they succeded in bringing public awareness of this disgrace back to the public eye and for many, it was the first they had heard of it. I am sure that the decent thing will now be done and these wrongly convicted decent folk will have their cases quashed and compensation paid. I suspect that there will be little hope that for those who ignored the evidence of a suspect system and hounded these innocents will be taken to task. The fact that a CBE has been handed back is of little consequence, some of these people need to be dragged through court themselves.

DWD

[etaf]

The fact that a CBE has been handed back is of little consequence, some of these people need to be dragged through court themselves.

i agree , and whoever gave it to her , should also be looked into - its about accountability and taking the consequences , unfortunately not something that seems to happen with politicians and enquiries (covid for instance) i guess we will see when that ends.
Hopefully every one will be involved - like Keagan https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... andal.html and his wife my local MP, another interesting read here
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 06279.html

[APDIY]

Whilst I’m all in favour of Statutory Public Enquiries, the problem is a little like a Coroner’s Inquest. It’s up to another organisation - the Police/Crown - to prosecute the alleged crims.

[Neelix]

Having just binged this series with the misses we found it amazing.

The Post Office clearly think they did no wrong and what about Fujitsu’s part in this?

I don’t think we’ll ever know what actually happened and more importantly who knew what and when.

God only knows how the poor ex post office managers got through all the stress they have and probably still encounter in a daily basis. They deserve medals


No doubt an enquiry will be set up with a very small list of what they are allowed to investigate AND the outcome probably drafted before they start.

[etaf]

the enquiry is underway , I watched the Post Office legall guy get interviewed yesterday and it was pretty bad, They did not understand the infrastructure of the email systems and sending in 100's of dupicate documents and days before a witness is due to give evidence , its appalling
The are on phase 4 and there is a ohase 5 and 6 still to go

[dewaltdisney]

This scandal was all caused by a shite system released before it was ready. The Post Office did not believe that the system was at fault as they had autonomous legal powers to prosecute without having to go through the DPP. When the cases started to build up I suspect that there was a decision to ignore the possibility that the system was corrupt and continue prosecuting, they had no one to answer to so they could, I think that somewhere they must have realised where the problem was but by then it was too late to back track and they carried on hoping the system would come good to justify their stance.

The original Horizon system was designed to replace benefits and pension books where a weekly voucher was torn from the book and cashed at a Post Office. The new system was to have magnetic cards that would be used instead of paper but the DHSS realised that the system looked shite and backed out and went down the route of direct crediting to bank accounts. To save the Horizon system it was converted to become a sub Post Office accounting and stock control system which is what failed. Changing a system process was a risk at best and clearly, it was not tested properly which led to the system errors that were blamed on humans.

When you build a system you always have a small test version copy that you hammer to destruction to ensure you have found and rectified all the problems. This did not happen as I suspect there was pressure to deliver the system and get money into ICL/Fujistu to cover the huge costs involved.

The truth is no one had the balls to stand up and declare the problem at the expense of the innocent. A disgrace.

DWD