basic paving project: a few simple questions

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Sun Sep 29, 2024 11:03 am

Hi,
I have never done paving before... but it doesnt seem to be a difficult job. I have a few simple questions and I hope I can get help here.
It is a very basic project (front yard of around 10sq meters) currently covered with gravel. Thinking to remove the gravel and lay slabs.

1. Can I compact the sub base somehow manually without a plate compactor? Simply because it is just 10sq meters... I don't think it is necessary to hire a plate compactor, also, it is very low traffic front yard (only humans walking through it occasionally), and also some of the bits would be hard to reach by a compactor (like corners and around the drains).
2. If I go with slabs, can I do so called dry laying? I have seen projects done without mortar... sub base being mot1 or sharp sand. If so, what sub base would be recommended in my case?

I attach the photo of a front yard as it looks currently and what is beneath the gravel, beneath the gravel (that I am going to remove) there is solid/hard soil. I dont know what is it, but this is what the builder while building the property did spread the gravel on. I dont know if its a natural rock, or some type of base used and compacted by a builder.

Many thanks for any advice.

London mike 61 · Post by **London mike 61** » Sun Sep 29, 2024 11:36 am

Can I ask a few questions first ?
1. Does the area drain well after rainfall?
2. Do you not like the gravel covering that you have at the moment because;
a) it looks unsightly
b) the weeds grow through and it a pain
c) the area is uneven and difficult to walk on
3.if you use slabs on a dry mix they will move a bit in winter and summer as the soil expands and shrinks, are you prepared to lift the slabs every so often to level them again or do you want to lay them and forget?

You are right that they aren’t difficult to lay but the prep work is key to success.
To help compact the soil I would buy one of these https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-tamper/p33057 , you can always sell it after on Facebook or eBay.

Mike

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 11:04 am

Yes the area drain fine after a rain fall... never had any flood in my front yard.

I don't like gravel, because it is not convenient... it is much more convenient to walk on a solid surface. I want something solid under my feet.

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 11:08 am

If you say the slabs would move during the seasons... what subbase would be recommended in this case then?

I have been thinking about 10:1 sharp sand and cement mix.. instead of plain sharp sand alone (I have read that is the method some people do). or is using the proper mortar underneath the slabs the only way to make them stable?

any advice?

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 12:04 pm

It is difficult to visualise the job from the photo but have you thought about plastic grids filled to give a finish you like? See https://www.gridforce.co.uk/ (search around)for best price) Maybe it is not what you are thinking but you could use a pea shingle fill that will not get cast around. These things take car weight so a casual walk over will have no effect but the plus point is superb drainage. Just an idea.

DWD

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 12:05 pm

Have you looked at the paving expert website? no? Click me

For clarity, I am nothing to do with said site, I only know of it as it has been mentioned here at UHM several times.

London mike 61 · Post by **London mike 61** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 3:01 pm

For the sub base I would go for 75-100mm of mot type 1 well compacted then lay the slabs on a 5 to 1 mix of sand cement so you have a full bed of mortar under each slab. Then you must decide if you want the slabs butted up to each other or have a gap you can fill with mortar , it’s up to you.
Because we can’t see the whole area to be paved , we will assume that there will be some cutting of slabs ( unless you are very lucky ) to go from edge to edge.
I’ve seen the grids that DWD refers to and they do a damn fine job on footpaths, they are also low maintenance.

Good luck with the job and let us know how you got on.

Mike

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:18 pm

To DWD, thanks for the info. never knew grids like that existed. I would go with them if I was doing a temporary project. Seems to be easy to install and low maintenance, superb drainage as you mentioned.

To Someone-Else, yes I know that website. I have obtained some usual info from there.

To Mike, I think I might get away without mot1 .. as I have mentioned there seems to be a solid material under the gravel already. I also think, using sand and cement mix would be better idea than to go with sand alone. Will 5:1 mix allow water to drain properly? Also, as you mentioned about the joints... I have been thinking is it better to push slabs against each other without leaving any gaps/joints.. or is it better to leave joints and fill them with something permeable? At first I have been thinking not to leave any joints but later realised it might affect the drainage (I am thinking to use regular concrete slabs for the project).

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:27 pm

any advice regarding the joints please? For the better drainage is it better to create joints and fill it with something permeable like sharp sand or mortar? or would it perfectly drain not having joints in this case?

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:02 pm

The drainage is minimal between slabs, and it would be better to use something like Sika.This will keep it neat.

DWD

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Sun Oct 13, 2024 12:30 pm

dewaltdisney wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:02 pm The drainage is minimal between slabs, and it would be better to use something like <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">Sika.This</span> will keep it neat.

DWD

if leaving no joints in between the slabs yes.. the drainage as I imagine would be minimal. instead of using sika, couldn't I achieve perfect drainage creating joints and filling them with sharp sand?

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Sun Oct 13, 2024 2:33 pm

Yes, if you want grass and weeds in the joints. Plus topping up voids.

DWD

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 8:15 am

I see. One of the last questions that I have.. I have read that doing paving projects sometimes the permeable fabric sheets are laid in between mot1 and sand/sand+cement mix.. in order to prevent the sand/sand+cement mix to disappear into the mot1 as time progresses.. is it something that I should be considering using in my case? or would it be perfectly fine without laying it?

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 8:38 am

I have laid slabs on well-tamped sand and they never moved. Much depends on the expected traffic, if you intend to park cars on it then you have to pay more attention to the substrate. If it is only decorative, with an occasional walk over, it is not so crucial. The sand can only be washed away from the joint areas from water seepage which is why Sika is good as it seals the joins.

DWD

Mazonas · Post by **Mazonas** » Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:05 pm

I see. Useful info. Appreciated.

It is a small front yard, with very low traffic (people would be walking over it very occasionally.. thats it). So I will do this project without a fabric then.

Somebody in the previous posts mentioned that for a better and more stable bed I should use 5:1 sand and cement mix. Good idea, but when you think about it it is nearly a concrete ratio.. I am thinking to do 7:1 in order to have better drainage. I think 5:1 might not drain as well.

When spreading the bed.. should I spread it as a dry mixture (as it will absorb plenty of rain water and hardens as time progresses) or should I wet with water straight away after spreading it?