Solar panels housing association

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:57 pm

Good point big all i didnt think to look although i have spoken to coss keys this morning and their involvement wold seem to have ceased upon the contract being undertaken by "solar maintenance services"
Now the original supplier has been changed to octopus, no one has asked to read any meters, octopus are unaware of any contract and if the tennant isnt on a feed in tariff then the meter doesnt even bother reading any current going the other way, its just the way they set the meter up. "Solar maintennce services" cannot be in reciept of any payment because that would require meter readings and as i said, neither we, solar maintenance services nor octopus energy have bothered to take any readings on current going bck into the grid so it would appear there is a benefit and quite possibly a rebate just sitting there witing to be claimed.... by somebody, who once ive spoken to solar maintenance services on the 3rd will be apparent..
it certainly seems odd, but if im right, thousands of tennants may well be siiting on an unclaimed financial benefit from solar panels sitting on their roof...

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:25 pm

cwplastering wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:57 pmif the tennant isnt on a feed in tariff then the meter doesnt even bother reading any current going the other way

I believe that is not correct. The meter shows how much electricity is being used (be it in or out) It does not matter what the tariff or the supplier is, it still (supposedly) records how much electricity is being used.

Suppliers will not take on anyone without details of the meter at the property, so Octopus must know what the meter is reading, or else they would not send out bills.
You may want to look at the meter, then google it, to find out how to "get it to tell you all of its readings"
If all is working as it should, a smart meter will send readings of how much was used and how much was produced. (That's IF all is as it's supposed to be)

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:37 pm

thats just what octopus energy told me this morning, that it wont be set up to read feed in because its irrelevant as they werent aware of a solar installation and dont usually ask..
i did press a few buttons the other night but couldnt make any sense whatsoever of it but i take your point, and its another thing to look at cheers

Scotty001 · Post by **Scotty001** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:52 pm

cwplastering wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:51 am quick up date..
Now, octopus energy do offer a fit tariff but need a "mpan" number (meter id),
Just to help a little with fine details
The MPAN (Meter Point Administration Number) , is the 'address' in electrical terms, the meter Id is the meter serial number (which can be found on the meter) often alpha numeric and may be a letter (iirc- installing meter operator Identifier) followed by 2 numbers (year of manufacture) then upto 10 numbers.
The meter serial number is linked to the MPAN, when a meter is changed its serial number is changed and a de link and re link of old and new meter and meter serial number are made to the MPAN.

Does your relative have 2 meters 1 of which is for the the solar panel export?

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:55 pm

Will trqcce cables back oropernky when have a chance and report as much detsil7

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:27 pm

the more i look at this the more i think you will need permission from someone like the housing association
you dont own the panels or any off the infrastructure
the permission you have is to change supplier and not touch the wiring or the building structure
electrics gas and structure are fully the landlords equipment 'responsibility and property so you cannot touch it in any way without permission
so suggest you need permission in writing and assume they will want certified work done with documentation and possibly via there approved agents

it is possible they dont want you to do it or may refuse outright :dunno:

not saying there will be problems but you need the full paper trail permission to do what you want and comply with any requirement that may be zero or impossible but you need to check before spending ages and money to find your not allowed :dunno:

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:57 am

I get what you're saying big all, it's kind of 50 percent of the missus wonder g why here bills are miles higher than mine while she has solar panels, and the fact there's absolutely no mention of any payback on any of the bills and 50 percent me wondering why there doesn't seem to be any documention. Upon looking into it it appears the "landlord" contracted out the installation yet apparently the installer continues to own the panels along with any maintenance they need.
So, why would you do that?
1) contractor approaches landlord and offered to make them look like angels by fitting solar panels to everyone's roof. Maybe for free, payback being the feed in tariff?
2) landlord pays the contractor to install solar panels, payback being that payment with a maintenance clause
3) neither the landlord nor the contractor envisaged a drop in feed in tariff, its all gone to sh*t, some compensation deal was made, everyone's kept ahtum cos there's something slightly dodgy going on
4) maybe, just maybe that somewhere in that box of tricks upstairs there's some sort of electronic wizardly that adds up what the panels produce, and the clamp sensor sums up what is being used in total, deduct one from the other and some 1st gen 3g sim card in the box phones up "solar maintenance services" with this resulting figure which they can use to claim their contracted investment back direct from UK Power networks bypassing the supplier...
I honestly have no clue, still..
I won't be able to find out more till I've spoken to the 3rd wheel in this lil menage a trois on the 3rd of Jan namely "solar maintenace services" although I might just pop a few cheeky screws off the box thing provided there's no seals on it and take a piccy...
No way am. I touching any wiring because I have no clue what most of it actually does?
I can accept either scenario but the vague info from cross keys seems suspicious, octopus are quite open about it but the voicemail on the solar maintenace hotline sounds like Fred West building services and their website has absolutely no info ref social housing installations...
The more I look at it, the more iim intrigued as to what iis actually going on... Call me a cynic by all means

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:18 am

I think what I was hoping for coming here was a layman's term explanation as to what exactly the craic is being as I cannot seem to get anything more than a vague "errrr not sure" from both the supplier and the landlord which is leading me to believe the situation is likely more political than straightforward. A legal contract is aLegal contract, this must have come up before, I can accept if whats already been mentioned by several is true e.g. Landlord gets the fit (apparently not the case), supplier gets the fit (bloody illegal if you ask me), or the owner gets the fit (fair one, they own and maintain the panels after all)
But how are they getting paid then? Maybe a settlement was made based on expected electricity generation for the next 5 years? Maybe there's some sort of 3g sim card style transmitter in the inverter case?
The plot just thickens... Will update with more when we have it...

Neelix · Post by **Neelix** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:07 am

If the inverter doesn't connect to your misses fuseboard or the consumer side of her meter then there is no benefit for her what so ever.

Just because they are on the roof doesn't mean much.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:11 am

my thoughts
you have no contract with anyone except the landlord the panels dont belong to you' you have no right to any off the output
you wont be able to claim anything as the output doesn't belong to you and diverting any funds not belonging to you is theft

now that aside the present setup is whats agreed so fine but you need to find out whats what
doesn't it work on a set output gives a set payment to the owner even iff not monitored so the money is already going somewere as the panel owners but without the need to monitor :dunno:

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:19 pm

Oookkkaayy... So I've been in the loft..
There Is a separate meter, will upload a pic when I can figure out how to do it..
The cat 5 cable clamp thing... This is for the electric vehicle charger believe it or not but it is...
(at this stage I can only assume it monitors the whole house draw through the meter and will switch the charger off if this draw approaches the main incommer fuse rating, makes sense to me, otherwise why have it)
So this meter in the loft, I'm guessing this is capable of sending signals to someone the same way a smart meter is, so my "assumption" at the minute is this is how "solar maintenance services" are getting the payback for the fitting and maintenance of the solar panels. I could be wrong, I hope I am because the number on that meter equates to over 3 grand at 25p kwh, over 2 grand at 15pkwh and nearly 700 quid at the lowest fit rate.
The only way I can now Comfirm this (short of someone knowledgeable putting me right on here) is to speak to "solar maintenance services" on the 3rd of Jan..

Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:20 pm

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Deleted-user-3 · Post by **Deleted-user-3** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:20 pm

: IMG_20221224_110439.jpg (285.55 KiB) Viewed 707 times

Neelix · Post by **Neelix** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:49 pm

The meter next to the inverter is just recording the actual power generated by the PV

Is there a circuit breaker on the fuseboard which is labelled PV?

Scotty001 · Post by **Scotty001** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:31 pm

I think the circumstances here would be
1) Council / ha entered a contract with a company to install and maintain the solar panels. (at cost to the council / ha.)
A) the council / ha collect the fit payment of surplus generation to off set the cost of instalation / maintenance contract.
B) Tennant gets free electric when the panels are generating.

2) council / ha entered a contract with the solar company to install and maintain the panels at the solar companies cost
A) solar company collect the fit payment for the 20 year period to offset their investment cost
B) solar company transfers the fit payment ownership to Council / ha at the end of their agreed contract and negotiate a maintainance contract or council / ha tenders the maintainance contract to another company
C) Tennant gets free electric when the panels are generating.

3) and most unlikely, council / ha entered a contract with a company to install and maintain the solar panels. (at cost to the council / ha.)
A) fit payments are made to the Tennant and tenant gets free electricity when panels are generating.
This is most unlikely as the council is not going to spend multiple millions to install and pay ongoing maintaince for this equipment and never see any return / benefit from doing so.

In truth the true likleyhood is your girlfriend gets some free electric when the panels are generating, any surplus is fed back into the grid and council / ha / instalation company receive the fit payment to cover their investment costs into this equipment. Ultimately the property is owned by the council / ha, they probably made the investment to install the equipment and generate extra revenue from their property, as a bit of icing on the side, their tenant gets some free electricity now and then which the council / ha can promote they are helping tenants save money by investing in this technology.

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