Strugling to paint woodwork

[dynamod]

Strictly speaking, no.

It's a durable emulsion, and is a harder wearing alternative to vinyl matt, offering greater resilience and washability. It's a wall paint and isn't best suited to woodwork. I'd go with a polyurethane water-based eggshell, as previously discussed. There is also Flat Oil finish, but if it's to be white, there are all the issues that come with oil trim paints to contend with.

Polyvine Decorators Varnish (or Heavy Duty Extreme Varnish) can be used as a glaze coat over other paints/coatings, should you choose to go that route. It's very, very tough, but adds time and material costs onto the project. It is an exceptional product, and something to consider.

[Mlkns]

Just bought this paint to try:
https://www.homebase.co.uk/crown-quick- ... =affiliate

It doesn't say it's Trade, but still dries instantly when applied. I am losing my mind what's wrong. I get perfect finishes with primer but can't achieve good top coat...

I use Zinsser 123 as a primer and then paint on top. Maybe I need to use undercoat after 123 or something??

I am telling you, once I dip brush in paint ant try to brush it on I can even feel how it grabs surface and start dry before I can spread it out nicely.. And when you spread it out it looks shite.

P.s. I am painting in normal conditions, room temperature.

[dynamod]

I've got a lot going on just now, so this has taken a couple of days to get around to.

Some of these retail paints are the principal reason that many won't get on board with acrylics. They have numerous limitations and are of dubious quality, to make no mention of how they apply. All that said, applying a first finish coat over water based primer as opposed to water based undercoat can make things tricky. Primer is typically much more absorbent than undercoat (leaving oil undercoat out of this for now) that it will 'grab' at the finish coat and cause all manner of issues, rapid setting being the most obvious and frustrating.

That Crown retail stuff is best not used at all. Actually, all retail paints should be avoided, normally on the grounds of poor opacity.

Johnstones Aqua Undercoat is a far better base coat for finish paints than primer, as it offer a more sealed surface to work on than a primer, whose surface is usually quite absorbent, leading to the short open working times you have experienced. I'd ditch the retail gear and stay firmly within the TRADE paint sector to make your life easier.

The new batch of MacPherson's acrylic satin and eggshell are exceptional products and are available from the Crown Decorator Centre network. They offer outstanding performance and very reasonable prices.

Using water based paints successfully isn't really a DIY endeavour if I'm being honest, and as I've said in other posts, a sector of the trade won't use them, for the simple reason that they are initially very tricky to work with. The way they apply is totally different from oil, which in many respects is far easier, mainly on account of its longer open times. But long re-coat times and yellowing of white have forced many of us to change over. I've been 100% water based for over 10 years now, and have used most of the brands out there, and I will never go back to oil.

Best advice is this:

Try to use a WB undercoat over primer if it's new wood. It'll ease application and promote open times for the top coat(s)
Use decent synthetic filament brushes (not cheapo ones) Purdy, Wooster, Rembrandt etc
Apply the finish quickly, lay it off and leave it. No touching up while it's setting, or it marks.
Proper TRADE quality paint, hopefully at this point, goes without saying.
Heating off and windows closed to keep open times longer
Wiping the paint finish with a damp cloth between coats helps keep it from setting too rapidly.

With all this said, WB paint is still a steep learning curve, and if it's your first time using it, then it's going to be a challenge I expect. Good luck with it though.

[Mlkns]

I've got a lot going on just now, so this has taken a couple of days to get around to.

Some of these retail paints are the principal reason that many won't get on board with acrylics. They have numerous limitations and are of dubious quality, to make no mention of how they apply. All that said, applying a first finish coat over water based primer as opposed to water based undercoat can make things tricky. Primer is typically much more absorbent than undercoat (leaving oil undercoat out of this for now) that it will 'grab' at the finish coat and cause all manner of issues, rapid setting being the most obvious and frustrating.

That Crown retail stuff is best not used at all. Actually, all retail paints should be avoided, normally on the grounds of poor opacity.

[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://www.johnstonestrade.com/product ... html</span>]Johnstones Aqua Undercoat[/url] is a far better base coat for finish paints than primer, as it offer a more sealed surface to work on than a primer, whose surface is usually quite absorbent, leading to the short open working times you have experienced. I'd ditch the retail gear and stay firmly within the TRADE paint sector to make your life easier.

The new batch of MacPherson's acrylic satin and eggshell are exceptional products and are available from the Crown Decorator Centre network. They offer outstanding performance and very reasonable prices.

Using water based paints successfully isn't really a DIY endeavour if I'm being honest, and as I've said in other posts, a sector of the trade won't use them, for the simple reason that they are initially very tricky to work with. The way they apply is totally different from oil, which in many respects is far easier, mainly on account of its longer open times. But long re-coat times and yellowing of white have forced many of us to change over. I've been 100% water based for over 10 years now, and have used most of the brands out there, and I will never go back to oil.

Best advice is this:

Try to use a WB undercoat over primer if it's new wood. It'll ease application and promote open times for the top coat(s)
Use decent synthetic filament brushes (not cheapo ones) Purdy, Wooster, Rembrandt etc
Apply the finish quickly, lay it off and leave it. No touching up while it's setting, or it marks.
Proper TRADE quality paint, hopefully at this point, goes without saying.
Heating off and windows closed to keep open times longer
Wiping the paint finish with a damp cloth between coats helps keep it from setting too rapidly.

With all this said, WB paint is still a steep learning curve, and if it's your first time using it, then it's going to be a challenge I expect. Good luck with it though.

Thank you for detailed reply! I have a feeling that zinser 123 causes some issues because even after 24hr you can feel it's dry but tacky to touch. Next time I will try use undercoat on top.

Couple questions:
1. Can I paint water based paint on top of oil based undercoat?
2. Lets say I painted flush door in satin white and I am happy with outcome but there is 2 dust bits on a surface. How you deal with things like this? I can suspect it happens all the time especialy with oil based paint (longer drying time). Is it possible to sand with high grit slightly without making it noticeable?

[dynamod]

If 123 is still tacky after 24 hours, then there's either a problem with the paint, or some form of damp in the substrate preventing drying. It's normally quite well-behaved. Was it mixed thoroughly before application?

To your questions:

1. WB will apply fine over OB undercoat, but make sure you de-nib and give it a light sanding to help adhesion.

2. It depends on the light, really. It would be considered bad practice, (and I personally wouldn't recommend this approach) but assuming the surface is clean, dry and dust free at the outset, and the paint itself is free from contaminants, airborne dust really isn't a thing with these paints, as they dry off so rapidly. Dust, is practically invisible, but if you're getting bits in the paint, it's best to strain it through before application.

Airborne contamination is only really a thing on outside work if the wind picks up, or insects are around in the summer months.

[Mlkns]

If 123 is still tacky after 24 hours, then there's either a problem with the paint, or some form of damp in the substrate preventing drying. It's normally quite well-behaved. Was it mixed thoroughly before application?

To your questions:

1. WB will apply fine over OB undercoat, but make sure you de-nib and give it a light sanding to help adhesion.

2. It depends on the light, really. It would be considered bad practice, (and I personally wouldn't recommend this approach) but assuming the surface is clean, dry and dust free at the outset, and the paint itself is free from contaminants, airborne dust really isn't a thing with these paints, as they dry off so rapidly. Dust, is practically invisible, but if you're getting bits in the paint, it's best to strain it through before application.

Airborne contamination is only really a thing on outside work if the wind picks up, or insects are around in the summer months.

Regarding 123.
Surface is complete dry becore painting with Zinsser 123. Well it is completly dry but when you touch it you can feel it is little bit tacky. If you would leave an item on top for longer periodiod I believe it would stick to it for sure. I l've red that 123 fully cures only after aprox 7 days.

[dynamod]

A tacky surface before paint, indicates a contaminant of some sort.

Decreasing with meths or sugar soap prior to a primer coat is good practice.

Nicotine contamination is a know source of retarding paint drying, as is grease from hands or animals fur. Cleaning thoroughly in both instances is the way to go.