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Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:35 am
by ericmark
As far as I am aware, the 3 meters from the bath or shower has been reduced, not got the current edition of BS 7671 so if 3 meter or more from bath or shower would be permitted. My top bathroom must be on the edge of being able to comply with 3 meter rule, the other 2 are too small.
Be it a FCU or socket, being slightly to the side of the heater would normally not be a problem, and it is the same as the hob isolator, may be no regulation to say don't mount so you have to reach over hob to reach it or above heater to switch it off, but common sense says if some thing goes wrong you need to access the isolator.
Oh and BS 7671 is not law, although can be used in a court of law, and only with rented homes is there any law saying must comply with BS 7671. Although scheme member electricians have a contract with the scheme provider to say they must follow BS 7671.
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:45 am
by Neelix
Rorschach wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 8:55 pm
Why question anything or discuss things eh?
Because it’s not a discussion that is needed or suitable for a diy forum
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:24 pm
by Rorschach
ericmark wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:35 am
As far as I am aware, the 3 meters from the bath or shower has been reduced, not got the current edition of BS 7671 so if 3 meter or more from bath or shower would be permitted. My top bathroom must be on the edge of being able to comply with 3 meter rule, the other 2 are too small.
Be it a FCU or socket, being slightly to the side of the heater would normally not be a problem, and it is the same as the hob isolator, may be no regulation to say don't mount so you have to reach over hob to reach it or above heater to switch it off, but common sense says if some thing goes wrong you need to access the isolator.
Oh and BS 7671 is not law, although can be used in a court of law, and only with rented homes is there any law saying must comply with BS 7671. Although scheme member electricians have a contract with the scheme provider to say they must follow BS 7671.
My bathroom at only just over 1.5m square is definitely too small to legally fit a socket. Still always thought the rules were weird though, you can put loads of sockets and appliances in a kitchen, and you can have a 240v shaver socket next to a sink, but then loads of rules around fitting things like heaters which always have controls that are safe to use with wet hands.
Anyway I didn't need to fit mine directly below the socket, it's off to one side, just thought it was a very weird instruction.
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:01 pm
by Someone-Else
Sorry about this but..............
Rorschach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:24 pmyou can have a 240v shaver socket next to a sink,
Yes you can, but a shaver socket has an isolation transformer in it (That's why they are heavy and cost a lot) so they are "Safe" (You can't draw a lot of current from one) so a shaver socket does not count in your example
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:47 pm
by ericmark
Just measured mine and 2 meters from bath so I can't fit a socket. In the main the old 3 meter rules replaced the rules for fitting a shower in a bedroom.
I agree that even 2 meters seems far enough from the bath or shower to not need the regulations not to permit sockets, in the main the idea was to stop some one plugging in a hair drier and using it in the bath, but who knows what went through the minds of the writers when they wrote the regulations.
But all we can do is follow the regulations, yes when I was a member of the IET I could have lobbied them to change it. But as a lowly level 5 member (foundation degree) I don't think my opinion would have had much weight.
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:44 pm
by OnlyMe
Rorschach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:24 pm
ericmark wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:35 am
As far as I am aware, the 3 meters from the bath or shower has been reduced, not got the current edition of BS 7671 so if 3 meter or more from bath or shower would be permitted. My top bathroom must be on the edge of being able to comply with 3 meter rule, the other 2 are too small.
Be it a FCU or socket, being slightly to the side of the heater would normally not be a problem, and it is the same as the hob isolator, may be no regulation to say don't mount so you have to reach over hob to reach it or above heater to switch it off, but common sense says if some thing goes wrong you need to access the isolator.
Oh and BS 7671 is not law, although can be used in a court of law, and only with rented homes is there any law saying must comply with BS 7671. Although scheme member electricians have a contract with the scheme provider to say they must follow BS 7671.
My bathroom at only just over 1.5m square is definitely too small to legally fit a socket.
Use an extension lead from the landing socket then
The UK has always had a problem with 13A sockets in bathrooms. In Eastern Europe the bathroom has for many years been considered the place to locate a washing machine.
And as for UK bathroom safety in the past - who remembers those halogen heaters you could poke your fingers onto. I wonder why many people didn't try that twice - or even once.
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:11 pm
by Rorschach
ericmark wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:47 pm
Just measured mine and 2 meters from bath so I can't fit a socket. In the main the old 3 meter rules replaced the rules for fitting a shower in a bedroom.
I agree that even 2 meters seems far enough from the bath or shower to not need the regulations not to permit sockets, in the main the idea was to stop some one plugging in a hair drier and using it in the bath, but who knows what went through the minds of the writers when they wrote the regulations.
But all we can do is follow the regulations, yes when I was a member of the IET I could have lobbied them to change it. But as a lowly level 5 member (foundation degree) I don't think my opinion would have had much weight.
Can't have a socket, but nothing to stop you running an extension in from the landing!
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:12 pm
by Rorschach
OnlyMe wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:44 pm
Rorschach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:24 pm
ericmark wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:35 am
As far as I am aware, the 3 meters from the bath or shower has been reduced, not got the current edition of BS 7671 so if 3 meter or more from bath or shower would be permitted. My top bathroom must be on the edge of being able to comply with 3 meter rule, the other 2 are too small.
Be it a FCU or socket, being slightly to the side of the heater would normally not be a problem, and it is the same as the hob isolator, may be no regulation to say don't mount so you have to reach over hob to reach it or above heater to switch it off, but common sense says if some thing goes wrong you need to access the isolator.
Oh and BS 7671 is not law, although can be used in a court of law, and only with rented homes is there any law saying must comply with BS 7671. Although scheme member electricians have a contract with the scheme provider to say they must follow BS 7671.
My bathroom at only just over 1.5m square is definitely too small to legally fit a socket.
Use an extension lead from the landing socket then
The UK has always had a problem with 13A sockets in bathrooms. In Eastern Europe the bathroom has for many years been considered the place to locate a washing machine.
And as for UK bathroom safety in the past - who remembers those halogen heaters you could poke your fingers onto. I wonder why many people didn't try that twice - or even once.
Those halogen wall heaters are still for sale in Argos!
As for your extension idea, you aren't far off reality ;)
Weird instruction.
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:36 pm
by dewaltdisney
I am in Ibiza this week and they do not worry about this issue. We have a hairdryer over the sink in the hotel room that cuts out if you do not press the trigger. I wondered what would happen if I dropped it in water (not that I would use it with water in the sink) The Spanish do not worry it seems.
DWD
Weird instruction.
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:24 pm
by OnlyMe
dewaltdisney wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:36 pm
I am in Ibiza this week and they do not worry about this issue. We have a <a href="
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?&_nkw=hairdryer" class="skimwords-link" target="_blank" data-skimwords-id="815084" data-skimwords-word="hairdryer" data-group-id="0" data-skim-creative="300003" title="Shopping Link Added by SkimWords" occurrence="1" data-skim-node-id="300:IaminIbizathisweekan_1" style="">hairdryer</a><span style="position: absolute;"></span><span style="position: absolute;"></span> over the sink in the hotel room that cuts out if you do not press the trigger. I wondered what would happen if I dropped it in water (not that I would use it with water in the sink) The Spanish do not worry it seems.
DWD
Correct. The Spanish do worry about British tourists.
Weird instruction.
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:36 pm
by Rorschach
Same in the US, when I visited there were standard light switches inside the bathroom and there was a double socket on the wall right next to the sink.
Weird instruction.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:05 pm
by yartin
Re fused spur in the bathroom is not allowed in the regs but a fan heater on bathroom wall is fine:
Q. Which is more dangerous, water splash on a bathroom fan heater or on fused spur?
- fan heater.gif (22.86 KiB) Viewed 142 times
- Screenshot 2024-10-15 140815.gif (24.95 KiB) Viewed 142 times
Weird instruction.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 5:31 pm
by Bob225
A fused spur, as you can be in direct contact with it with wet body parts
Weird instruction.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 6:29 pm
by yartin
I asked water splash....
Weird instruction.
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:53 am
by Rorschach
Neither would be particularly dangerous IMO.