Soldered pipe under floorboards

marfulee · Post by **marfulee** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:09 pm

Hinton Heating wrote:
You should put compression joints under the floor, even tho i've found some really old ones under floors before, which are sound.

Is there supposed to be a 'NOT' in that sentence? What about a pushfit under floorboards? Almost convinced the wife that it'll far less hassle if I put a hand sized hole in the ceiling, reach in, cut pipe and shove a pushfit on there. The thing is that it's an artexed ceiling with a random wavey pattern on it, so it won't be that hard to disguise!

bathstyle · Post by **bathstyle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:02 pm

I solder wet pipes all the time, of course there are many tricks to get the water out, one (as Spike mentioned) is to raise the pipe and quickly sweat up the joint another is bread, bread is fine provided the end downstream from the bread has an open end so the bread can be flushed out after soldering.

Can you not chop away at the floorboard aroud the leaking pipe to solder the pipe under the Bath?

I guess it's a case of an easy fix for a Plumber, a lot more involved for a DIYer, let us know how you get on.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:06 pm

marfulee wrote:
Hinton Heating wrote:
You should put compression joints under the floor, even tho i've found some really old ones under floors before, which are sound.
Is there supposed to be a 'NOT' in that sentence? What about a pushfit under floorboards? Almost convinced the wife that it'll far less hassle if I put a hand sized hole in the ceiling, reach in, cut pipe and shove a pushfit on there. The thing is that it's an artexed ceiling with a random wavey pattern on it, so it won't be that hard to disguise!

If there is I can't understand why?

Is there a new regulation Hinton?

I haven't/can't find any reference to compression fittings (for water) under floor boards, after all it is an accessable area.

There is restriction to the use of compression couplings under floors for gas, it's not allowed.

A properly connected compression fitting will not leak and will give faultless service for many many years, the key to this is 'properly'.

And I stand by what I said, for the basic DIY'r my advice is wet pipes CANNOT be soldered, there are too many consequences for them to suffer both in upheaval, damage and cost.

bathstyle · Post by **bathstyle** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:12 pm

Push fit is fine for under floors, so is Compression but I would hardly call the siting of the OP's compression fitting as accessible therefore against the Regs.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:13 pm

bathstyle wrote:I solder wet pipes all the time, of course there are many tricks to get the water out, one (as Spike mentioned) is to raise the pipe and quickly sweat up the joint another is bread, bread is fine provided the end downstream from the bread has an open end so the bread can be flushed out after soldering.

Can you not chop away at the floorboard aroud the leaking pipe to solder the pipe under the Bath?

I guess it's a case of an easy fix for a Plumber, a lot more involved for a DIYer, let us know how you get on.

bathstyle I guess we've all soldered wet pipes before but for basic advice to someone doing DIY I think I'm right to say it won't.

I've not the experience of you and Hinton but I think I can usually get away with a wet one now and again (Oh Misses), it's understanding the effect the water, no matter how minimal, will have on the joint unless some precautions are taken.

For me to say yeah, you can solder a wet joint, no problem, would be a little reckless?

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:17 pm

bathstyle wrote:Push fit is fine for under floors, so is Compression but I would hardly call the siting of the OP's compression fitting as accessible therefore against the Regs.

It's only not accessible because he doesn't want to take the bath out, or get under it.

I suppose its the perception of accessible? Sure you can't sit on a chair and work with free space around you but are you saying it's now not acceptable to have a fitting under a bath and under the floor, I know I can access it and you know you could too.

marfulee · Post by **marfulee** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:00 am

Well, the pipe is quite close to the corner of the room, so it's not all that accessible. It wouldn't be very easy to get in with a jigsaw to widen the hole. Taking out the bath would be a pain as it's screwed down and the screws were not easy to get in, so they be easy to get out. I also built a panel for the other end of the bath, so I'd have to take that apart too.

IMHO much easier to access either underneath or in the hallway on the other side of the wall. I may be an amateur, but I'd challenge any pro to fix that joint from under the bath! If I go down the soldering route, then I'll cut out the floorboards, cut out the offending joint, solder up 2 pipes with the elbow, poke it through the floor and join it back on with a straight plugging the pipe with bread! Then flush the pipe into a bucket and make sure it's not leaking.

The pipe with the stopend is the one that needs fixing, the elbow is hidden under the floorboards.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:37 am

Hi murf,
It's never easy is it?

That's a tight one for sure. But don't get me wrong it's not an attack, difficult to establish peoples abilities over 'tinternet.

If you challenge many of us we'll be round in a shot and fix it. That's tight but it's not THAT tight!

The best part of plumbing, for me, is working out how to get round the obstacles and making the job look right. You have the advantage of being the one responsible for doing the remedial work to what ever you remove, can you imagine if I was round and took out half your ceiling and told you it was fixed and walked away!

The plan sounds good and there's a new trick to put into practice, the old bread. Make the bread quite solid by crushing it but it's got to be soft enough to break down, if you just stick a normal piece of bread it'll just dissolve and flow down to the joint with the water it's got to work as a plug/dam.

Let us know how you get on?

Hinton Heating · Post by **Hinton Heating** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:49 am

Jaeger_S2k wrote:
marfulee wrote:
Hinton Heating wrote:
You shouldn't put compression joints under the floor, even tho i've found some really old ones under floors before, which are sound.
Is there supposed to be a 'NOT' in that sentence? What about a pushfit under floorboards? Almost convinced the wife that it'll far less hassle if I put a hand sized hole in the ceiling, reach in, cut pipe and shove a pushfit on there. The thing is that it's an artexed ceiling with a random wavey pattern on it, so it won't be that hard to disguise!
If there is I can't understand why?

Is there a new regulation Hinton?

I haven't/can't find any reference to compression fittings (for water) under floor boards, after all it is an accessable area.

There is restriction to the use of compression couplings under floors for gas, it's not allowed.

A properly connected compression fitting will not leak and will give faultless service for many many years, the key to this is 'properly'.

And I stand by what I said, for the basic DIY'r my advice is wet pipes CANNOT be soldered, there are too many consequences for them to suffer both in upheaval, damage and cost.

no, its not a regualation, just bad practice.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:59 am

just bad practice

Unless it's the only fitting in your bag?

FIT IT!

bathstyle · Post by **bathstyle** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:06 pm

Challenge any pro to fix the leak from under the Bath?

Looking at that pic, it wouldn't be a difficult job at all.

marfulee · Post by **marfulee** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:15 pm

bathstyle wrote:Challenge any pro to fix the leak from under the Bath?

Looking at that pic, it wouldn't be a difficult job at all.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Reassessed the situation and decided that there was enough room to fix it from under the bath. Bought a Bosch equivalent of the Fein multimaster (told the missus I had to buy it or I'd pull up the carpet!), so enlarging the hole in the floorboards around the pipe, then had just enough room to get the pipe slice in. Cut out the offending pipe, then soldered an elbow to a length of pipe, added an extra straight joint to extend the pipe a bit, then soldered the new section on after blocking the pipe with bread. Easier said than done, especially with a crappy blow torch that either flares like b***ery or goes out, I reheated it a few times to be sure. Inspected the join with a plumber's mirror and torch and it looked OK. Got the water back on and it's not leaking!

The offending joint was pretty obviously not joined: soldered on top but not remotely on the bottom.

Soldering is much easier when not under the bath!

Hoovie · Post by **Hoovie** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:27 pm

Top Job!!!

Who needs a Pro Plumber

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:01 pm

Well done

marfulee · Post by **marfulee** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:57 pm

Cheers! Here's a BIG picture, sorry I couldn't be arsed to rotate it