An artificial environment which never really tests any tool to be frank. My experience of tool dealers is that half of them will try to sell you anything (which includes my two local Festool dealers, BTW). Other tradespeople I know tend to be of a similar opinion about dealerstoolbritannia wrote:Firstly, i am a 'proper' tool user but not a tradesman (obviously) remember i work in a toolshop environment so i get to play with all the gadgets.
Remember what I was saying about me being a Festool user, oh and a tradesman? Well I've used the DW and Makita in trade environments as well as Festools (TS55, TS75 and ATF55), Hiltis and Bosch blue (previous generation) and the biggest factor in quality of cut is the blade. My personal choice is Atkinson-Walker as opposed to Festool - 35 to 40% cheaper, made by a British saw maker with more than 150 years experience in the field. Why is it that I doubt that Festool make their own blades? (In fact I suspect that Leuco are the makers, a very decent brand, but there it is) A decent blade on a plunge saw goes a long way to levelling the playing field and shows Festool's ridiculous pricing of their rail saws to be what it is - ridiculous.toolbritannia wrote:the festool delivers a better finish consistently than both the makita and dewalt
You are jumping to the conclusion that someone buying a Mak saw will buy their vacuum as well........ That's quite an assumption. Most of the guys I know are savvy enough to build a kit from several sources. IIRC it isn't that difficult to rig-up a Systainer holder atop almost any industrial vacuum (after all, Mafell have done it with theirs)toolbritannia wrote:you have to look at how easy it is to use as a whole can you imagine dragging around a sp6000 in its systainer in one hand the makita 440 vacuum in another then trying to hold the makita guide rail? it just doesn't work!
And here's where a tool dealer's absolute ignorance of tool usage comnes to the fore..... once again. It is a flagrant breach of Health and Safety on any site to saw stuff on the floor. I know, we all break the rule from time to timetoolbritannia wrote:you look at festool and you connect your systainer to the ctlextractor and roll it to where you need whilst free to hold whatever you want
, but we shouldn't (and if you work for Carrillion, for example, working this way gets you an early bath for the day). Quite apart from being common sense not to do so. That means your minimum kit to trim doors to size ends up being a saw, a vacuum, a couple of trestles, etc - the trestles make the kit a lot less portable and you tend to find on many jobs that you set-up a static sawing workstation and bring the work to it, moving perhaps a few times each day........ Saying that not everyone works on sites isn't a get out IMHO - safe practice is safe practice. PeriodBA is probably in a better situation to confirm this, but if I were looking for the ultimate in portability I'd consider the DW cordless plunger in a Tanos Systainer 4, a home-made adaptor to allow Makita Li-Ion batteries to be used on it, a guide rail or two in a bag (and why is it that the Festool bag is such a cheap, shoddy and underspecced item?), and a Makita BVC350 portable dust extractor, also in a Systainer (although Makita do, rather handily, supply it with a shoulder strap). It should be possible to cart that around without any need for a transformer or leads but with less effort than a Festool corded kit. But then that's just one tradesman's opinion
In any case I believe that you are missing the point about using a saw - it is rarely if ever used in isolation from other tool requirements. For example use it for hanging doors (in bulk) and you often need a router (or two), hinge jig, lock jig, planer, chisels and assorted hand tools, cordless drill/driver, door clamp, plane or planer, etc. Not to mention an extension cable and 110 volt transformer in many trade cases. This means that you aren't portable and your portability argument evaporates for many people
The company I've communicated with on a few occasions has been Minden Industrial (or Festool UK, or whatever they are called). Saying how many technicians they have is of no interest to me or many other customers - it is NOT a selling point. I've paid over the odds for a tool and I therefore think I have the right to expect the importer to hold spares, provide a decent backup service and a fast turnaround. Compare Festool with another high-priced brand, Hilti, and you'll see major differences. Hilti send out a courier to collect the tool same or next day, they often supply a loaner on that collection, sometimes even if the tool isn't in warranty, they turn round repairs in 3 working days in 90% of the cases because they hold spares in the UK whereas getting spares out of Festool involves waiting for a delivery to turn up in the UK from Germany because they hold no spares here (from the Festool rep, that snippet), be unpacked, then sent on. I don't expect as high a level of service from "lower" manufacturers because I'm paying half the price (or often less) - enough to allow me to own a backup tool (often the tool which was replaced by the new one) or to hire in for a couple of days. And for the record my average wait for spares from Bosch has been 2 days. deWalt is similar, sometimes better. Based on 30+ years of spares transactionstoolbritannia wrote:you also say that festool repair service leaves alot to be desired, firstly, that depends on the company that you used to communicate with them (if any) and bear in mind that if a tool is sent back to festool to be repaired which in most cases they are, they only have 3 technicians working to repair machines and they repair everything that comes in from the uk, also if the machine is under guarantee and you deal with them direct all you have to do is ask and they will send you a loan machine to get you out of trouble for the next day! (which is something that you will never ever see makita, dewalt or mafell doing!)
I'm afraid that the more you say on this subject, the more you reinforce the view that Festools are for well-healed amateurs!
