You don't need anti-virus

[BillyGoat]

... it is the right system for me without having to shell out £100 for an OS, £400 for an Office package etc

The good thing about choice, is that people have the ability to pick what they want. If that does what you want, perfect - it's the correct choice.

For the mainstream, it's not the case. I know of a retailer who once sold Linux preinstalled on a laptop. It was done for a couple of reasons:

1. A test, to see if they could make more money
2. Because someone at head office said how great it was and they it would go down a storm with the public
3. They thought they could use it with OEMs and manufacturers to reduce costs (well, if you don't lower unit prices, we'll go with this.....)

The mainstream didn't get it. They didn't understand why NONE of the software on the shelves were compatible. Little Johnny got the laptop to do his homework, but didn't have access to any of the software the school used. They didn't like the OS looked but ugly. They didn't get why all the games were crap (without anyone mentioning WINE or any other emulator which you STILL need a Windows licence for....).

Returns rates averaged between 3-15% for computers, for various reasons. This would in the high 90%. Fail.

As for the price of Windows - Windows 8 Pro upgrade (just need a qualifying product that was on the machine, valid COA - no software) is currently 25 pounds. Not stella when you think of the price of hardware.

Office home and student - 60 quid.

There are lots of editions, version to suit different needs. The pricing you quote is outdated.

BG

[Bikergirl]

I think the resistance is to a company making massive amounts of money because it is the only alternative for most people.
Either you use microsoft and everyone understands you, or you use mac and have to convert everything for other people to understand or you use linux and ditto the previous, plus there is no tec support line for if you can't work it out.
It's the monopoly rather than anything else.

[northwales4u]

As for the price of Windows - Windows 8 Pro upgrade (just need a qualifying product that was on the machine, valid COA - no software) is currently 25 pounds. Not stella when you think of the price of hardware.

Office home and student - 60 quid.

There are lots of editions, version to suit different needs. The pricing you quote is outdated.

Sorry, your right - my prices were outdated (shows how long it is since I last used Windows) Win 7 Pro (full - I cant upgrade) - £189.97 MS Office Pro 2010 £389.99

[BillyGoat]

I think the resistance is to a company making massive amounts of money because it is the only alternative for most people.
Either you use microsoft and everyone understands you, or you use mac and have to convert everything for other people to understand or you use linux and ditto the previous, plus there is no tec support line for if you can't work it out.
It's the monopoly rather than anything else.

Why is it a monopoly? There IS choice - it's that people find it easier to BLAME them for having a great (In my opinion) product that is easy to use.

If people are too stupid to find an alternative, who's fault is that? Really?

Oooh, light the torches - we got ourselves a lynching to do....

Think Apple are out to give product away? Look at their trading report for the profits they announced this quarter!!! But everyone loves Apple.

Again, my own thoughts here - but I love the operating system. I my time USING it, rather than trying to figure out how to do mundane tasks. I got a new webcam the other day, with audio so I can make my working life a bit easier. I plugged it in, waited for 2 minutes and it was all fully installed and working. Why would I *WANT* to find an alternative? Why would I want to make my life harder?

Do you know why it's the "monopoly" it is (I don't think it is)? It's because they spend BILLIONS in development and research. They have the unenviable task of creating an operating system that works with hardware that has not yet been invented. It helps spurs innovation in the market.

When you pick up a tablet or touchscreen device. Do you think it fell out a tree? The amount of time and effort that goes into development is insane, do you think it's free?

If you do, I've got a massive list of things you can come and do for me - mind if I dictate the price? Thought not.

BG

[BillyGoat]

As for the price of Windows - Windows 8 Pro upgrade (just need a qualifying product that was on the machine, valid COA - no software) is currently 25 pounds. Not stella when you think of the price of hardware.

Office home and student - 60 quid.

There are lots of editions, version to suit different needs. The pricing you quote is outdated.

Sorry, your right - my prices were outdated (shows how long it is since I last used Windows) Win 7 Pro (full - I cant upgrade) - £189.97 MS Office Pro 2010 £389.99

Why are the features of Windows 7 Pro that you need? Why not Home Premium? Do you need to join a domain? Are you needing location aware printing or EFS or MUI support for language changing?

The thinking is that people must always have the 'pro' version, when it's simply not the case. Home Premium is MORE than enough for the majority of home users.

Cost - 70 quid.

Again, which bits of Pro office do you need? There may be a bit you need, might not. Most of the time - not.

BG

[Puma]

There are some TERRIBLE things about windows:

an installed copy of windows gets slower and slower as it accumulates junk - causing a huge amount of time to be wasted in a reinstall of windows + drivers + software. Or for the non savvy it means a new computer.

there is no windows light for low spec computers

Vista,

But then nothing is perfect. Apple is easy to hate in some regards too.

But I agree with you BG people do go over the top with hating THE MAN. Always will. If windows stayed working at the same speed I would have no problem with it at all. Not sure if there is an easy fresh install option or roll back which actually cures this problem mind?

[northwales4u]

For the mainstream, it's not the case. I know of a retailer who once sold Linux preinstalled on a laptop.
The mainstream didn't get it.

I can't agree with you more about the mainstream, even support lines for third party providers havent a clue about Linux. I had a problem with my broadband and got through to BT (in India) and despite telling the bloke I'm not running Windows he said it was OK and asked me to download some software. Of course it didnt work, thats when the penny clicked with him and the line went dead.

Microsoft is a hell of great company and my hat goes off to them with what they have achieved in the last 30 odd years. Because Windows is seem everywhere, school, libraries, work; the mainstream would find difficulty switching to anything else, be it Mac or Linux even though there isnt much difference between the two (except the financial backing of MS). It would be like Ford bringing out a left hand drive car, it wouldnt sell well because the mainstream are just used to right hand drive cars.

If I had a super duper computer and a grand to spend on software I could see myself going back to Windows but as I havent I am just sticking to something that works.

PS - you suggested Windows Pro, not me

[Puma]

To be fair you did write Win 7 Pro. The bit torrentz versions are all free...

Interesting discussion.

[northwales4u]

I couldnt find a full version of Win 8 Pro (only the upgrades). it is a very interesting discussion. Years ago when I was working on PC's all the time I had two in my office - a Mac for graphics stuff and a PC with Windows for Office stuff, mainly because both machines were outstanding at what they were good at. Out of curiosity I had a quick look in Wikipedia (not the most reliable source I know) to see how long Linux has been running for and I was amazed that it said this:
"has been ported to more computer hardware platforms than any other operating system. It is a leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems such as mainframe computers and supercomputers:more than 90% of today's 500 fastest supercomputers run some variant of Linux,including the 10 fastest."

i was more than surprised to see that, I would have thought MS would have won those crowns easy

[BillyGoat]

Hmm,

I meant Win 8 pro upgrade, but I see the confusion and why you looked at 7 - my bad

Win 8 pro upgrade (although you can clean install......no checking) is 25 quid
Win 7 Home Premium would be the better choice for Joe User.

Incidentally, if you ARE thinking of getting Win8 and use your computer as a media center (I watch tv while I work), then sign up for the key for media center - it's free NOW, but will have a cost later. You don't have to use it straight away either. Keep it in your bag of tricks.

I think all machines suffer when things are installed and removed, nature of the beast. Never really notice to be fair - for the most part, I'm convinced it's not the machine getting slower, but our expectations getting greater!!! Odd - yes. Think of your mobile phone - bet that feels slower over time too, so when you buy a new one WOW - SOOOO FAST. It happens if you use other peoples computers and go back to your own.

Not a fan of registry cleaners and such like, I rarely reinstall if I don't need too.....

As for Torrents, hmmm......I wouldn't. I've met with some people from a team who look at them, major AV vendor. They got multiple copies of Windows and other major (popular...) software's from these torrents. 95% of them were modified. They had things ranging from malware, keyloggers and spam agents to all sorts of remote connect and update stuff.

NO AV software would pick it up either, it's IN the OS or applications - it's been designed to hide from scanners, nothing would pick it up. They said that if people install the "free" download, they would likely be having their cards and personal details cloned at some point (talking major criminal kinds here, not kids in basements) - no thanks!!!!

I'm 100% legit OR free alternative.

It's a bit like drivers for hardware. You can get signed/unsigned drivers. Unsigned means its' not gone thorough certification or signing (digital signature). It can do stuff like run hardware out of spec (I've seen laptops with melted bottoms, as the graphics card was overclocked!!!) and even install viruses!!!

It's a minefield out there, education is the only way - but people don't care.

I don't want to sound like I'm fanatical about things - there is a balance and choice. What's right for me, isn't right for someone else. I tell people to get what suits them and their needs, it just irks me when people spread tripe that is incorrect.

A bit of balance is what's needed in life.




Edit: RTM doesn't exist anymore for full version, look for System Builder - it's around 80 quid!!!!

[BillyGoat]

Incidentally, I CAN use Linux/UNIX and Mac operating systems too - I'm not sat here in my perfect padded cell that hasn't ever been outside into the real world.

I hate it when people slate other peoples choices/products when they have never tried it for themselves!!!!!

I was given a MacBook pro "loaner" when I had some work to do. I used it for a month, done my work and gave it back. They said I could keep it and use it as my daily driver. I considered it, so I could boot camp it and put Windows on full time. I even used Parallels (awesome software - lets you use Windows AND OSX at the SAME time!!!) but just wasn't sold.

Don't it p*ss you off when people say "my mac is MUCH faster than my PC ever was". Poke them a little and you'll often find they spent 250 on a Windows laptop and 900 quid on a Mac then you can say, yeah.....I once drove a Fiesta, but I thought it was slow compared to my Ferrari.

BG

[northwales4u]

Your so spot on. Horses for courses. Years ago there used to be a Mac Vs Win battle. I used both at the time and the Mac was brilliant at graphics (before photoshop was available on MS) and music but was pants at other things like just normal day-to-day running of things - thats where the Win PC came into its own.
Out of all the OS's I have to say the Atari TOS was my favourite - on a ROM so no changes and no lag

[Bikergirl]

I agree that it's horses for courses. I have never been able to afford a state of the art computer. Up until about 6 months ago I was using a 9 year old hp laptop because I couldn't afford to upgrade. Running windows XXp it was so slow it was barely useable, despite upgrading the memory as far as I could and having nothing stored on it. hopefully linux will give it a new lease of life Horses for courses.

[BillyGoat]

Depending on the machine, if it's older and has a "Vista Ready" or a variation, get Windows 7 or 8 on it - will run MUCH nicer.

I was going to say, laptops are a usually quite limited in upgrades. If you don't need storage space, the BEST thing you can do is get an SSD in one - will give it a new lease of life for not much money.

You need an OS which supports the TRIM command (can't be bothered to check about Linux) to keep the drive in tip top condition, or spend more on a drive which looks after itself. Windows 7/8 - golden

Thing is with older machines, if it's a turd.....the best you can hope for is a polished turd after!

edit: quick search says Linux does support TRIM.....if your are using EXT4. Be prepared to get under the hood, you'll be needing your finest command line fingers.
edit2: I can imagine the conversation with my mum over the phone......

"No Mum, listen!!! I said you need root for this!!! Again, you need to fire up Vi and look for the line that starts UUID=11f92990-b2e0-4a7c- THEN add realtime comment. I really though you'd got the hang of this. Next you'll be telling me you've not been keeping your Kernal upto date.....

[northwales4u]

Next you'll be telling me you've not been keeping your Kernal upto date.....

These days the kernals update automatically and there is a new OS every 6 months