www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk

I am considering doing an electricians course, which will start with a new electricians domestic installers course. My slight concern is they teach you theory and some practical, but may not help with real life job situations. Any advice thanks.

........and you really believe you can become a (insert trade here) in a few weeks, and learn all the (regulations) then at your first job interview "What experience have you?" The only people who make money are the ones running the course.
Don't take my word for it, Click here

Someone-Else wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:52 am ........and you really believe you can become a (insert trade here) in a few weeks, and learn all the (regulations) then at your first job interview "What experience have you?" The only people who make money are the ones running the course.
Don't take my word for it, [url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... good</span>] Click here [/url]

That was my general feeling. The reason I was looking at doing the course was due to firstly my own home projects. I have an outbuilding project, which will involve electrical work. I haven’t had any quotes yet but estimate somewhere in the region of £700 to £800. I have also used electricians in the past and feel not that work they did is something I could have done myself. Apart from that I am looking to invest in property in the future and like the idea of being able to do as much work myself. Make sense?

I am retired now but five or seven years ago a couple of guys in work did a three year course at college with the idea that they could either do some private work at weekends when no overtime was going or if their jobs were in jeopardy they could at least earn a living with a different trade.
It was expensive and time consuming to complete the course but they managed it with days leave and swapping shifts etc. one guy did lots of small jobs like making a single socket into a double, putting lights in lofts that sort of thing. What he did struggle with was quoting for bigger jobs and found the time taken to visit assess the quote and most importantly to get the best prices from suppliers. Because he was not a regular or a big customer, the retailer gave him a little less discount that the public would pay.
In short unless he took the trade up full time and worked with a sparky that already had a established business he could not survive on small jobs.

Mike

London mike 61 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:36 pm I am retired now but five or seven years ago a couple of guys in work did a three year course at college with the idea that they could either do some private work at weekends when no overtime was going or if their jobs were in jeopardy they could at least earn a living with a different trade.
It was expensive and time consuming to complete the course but they managed it with days leave and swapping shifts etc. one guy did lots of small jobs like making a single socket into a double, putting lights in lofts that sort of thing. What he did struggle with was quoting for bigger jobs and found the time taken to visit assess the quote and most importantly to get the best prices from suppliers. Because he was not a regular or a big customer, the retailer gave him a little less discount that the public would pay.
In short unless he took the trade up full time and worked with a sparky that already had a established business he could not survive on small jobs.

Mike

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Got to join the trade properly. Although do you think it’s worth it just to do my own work? Could be worthwhile in the end.

You wouldn’t even learn the tip of the iceberg.

Please only quote the important bits.

Locornwall wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:45 pmAlthough do you think it’s worth it just to do my own work?

Yes, you can "Rewire your own place" but how do you know it is right, and how are you going to test it?
If you look through this and any other forum, there are lots of people who want to be a "Insert trade here" and believe they can achieve it by going on a short course, what they do not realise is that work does not fall through the letter box, you have to (As we often say) get 3 quotes for the job. Which also means 2 people did not get that job, but you still have to quote to get jobs, London mike 61 says (almost) all

London mike 61 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:36 pmhe could not survive on small jobs.

Then you have to ask where does the kit come from? you can't keep loads of stuff as you do not know what you will use, and it is money tied up, so you order what you need on an as and when basis, but wait, when will you do that? as you are out quoting jobs.
Sadly, unless your neighbour is a groundsman, the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence.

You have to pass your 16th edition (17th?, 18th?, 19th? dunno what it's up to now!) which means getting a copy of the IEEE rule book and learning it...... College courses take you through it and help explain the technical aspects (maths) but hands-on experience is absolutely essential. Getting this isn't easy but doing a lot of your own work (where legally allowed ) will help as will studying a lot of videos. There are some good books out there too going over the practical side of things.

It's not difficult - it IS time consuming and, if you go down the accreditation route, it will also be expensive - something you have to consider if you need t recoup your costs at some time in the future.

18th edition currently, k-e, and I think the book alone costs approaching three figures.

I am surprised that no respondent so far has pointed out to OP that, whilst a course may teach both theory and limited practical aspects, even if he acquired some test equipment and learnt how to use it properly, many electrical jobs, whether for himself or paying clients, are notifiable and certifiable.

To be able to comply with the requirements of this, membership of a trade body (which costs money), accreditation and liability insurance are additional expenses to be covered and a basic course is not going to achieve the necessary - rendering the cost of learning much useful, unjustifiable.

BS 7671 AMD was announced yesterday - expected to be released in late March

The big question is have they made AFDD's mandatory??

In addition to understanding this complicated book, you need to be aware of the associated building regs AND be familiar with all types of home construction and the earlier versions of the regs too

My son became an electrician late in life, he had two grand dads and a dad who were electricians so some one to ask, and I got him his first jobs as electricians mate where he learnt the basics.

He did a series of night classes PAT testing, 16th Edition as it was then, and inspecting and testing (2391) then found a firm who allowed him to use his holidays for day release.

He now has level 5 qualifications the same as me, although his called HND and mine called foundation degree. He had already studied in University so had a good grasp of maths, I found when getting my degree the maths was the hardest bit of the course, so much depends on your background, 'A' level maths does not cover imaginary numbers needs to be further maths 'A' level.

I did 'A' level while off work sick, and this is the problem, most the courses today are during the day, my dad pre-war could take night classes as there was no such thing as day release, But by time I did an apprenticeship there were very little in the night class option, and today looking at block release, in the main due to lift in school leaving age, in dads day 7 years apprenticeship qualified at 21 year old, my day 5 years qualified at 21, today 3 years qualified at 21. To cram it all into 3 years means block release.

The Emma Shaw court case resulted in employers being unwilling to use the mate system, when the court found the foreman guilty due to using semi-skilled labour. I used electricians mates to do simple testing, all he needed to do was plug in the meter, press a button and write down the result, but courts said that is not good enough.

ericmark wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:08 am 'A' level maths does not cover imaginary numbers

A vital necessity when making out your invoice!

I first trained as an auto electrician, and the move to non vehicle was if anything by accident, I am careful not to say high voltage as many vehicles like the electrohaul used voltages up to 11 kV so was taught about high voltage, but not earthing methods, and how low voltage was used in the home.

The first sidewards step started with portable traffic lights, I learn how to repair them, and got a job with a pump hire company, they said easier to teach me pumps, than teach a pump man traffic lights.

From that point I started swapping between shall I call it mains, and auto electrics, although we used three phase with auto electrics, we did not get into design in the same way, a Lucas Alternator use Lucas control gear and Lucas wiring colours and so in real terms the design was done for us.

As I moved to mains, I found I lacked some of the skills, even simple things like synchronise generators with a synchroscope, the used of SWA and glands taught when I started with pumps. One thing I have only ever done in collage is making off a mineral insulated cable, with the Ali-tube cable likely I never will.

But in the early days working in Algeria I got "Your the electrician, fix it." fact I have never seen a large refrigeration unit before did not matter. There was no one else, I fixed it, or we had no food, simple.

What we hope although not always the case, is we can fall back on collage training, although much of my career it has been necessity has been the mother of learning, when the PLC expert had a heart attack, and I had to learn how to program a PLC for example.

But as one moves around one finds the emphasis changes, with installation it seemed not marking the SWA gland was way up the list, and after all the training of how to form tray work, in real life no rollers and it was a cut and bolt. I have bent miles of plastic conduit, but much less with steel conduit, with both one learns how much it will spring back, and how much radius is required for different types of wire. This is the practical side, the volts x amps x power factor = watts is also used, but much is rule of thumb.

We should calculate the run is x meters, the load is x amps, standard 230 volts supply, what will be volt drop, but one gets a feel for it, so you think done this before, I was well within limits, not going to calculate it, but another it is oh that is cutting it close, better check. Now the formula to correct the mV/A/m used squares or square roots, although reasonable with my slide rule, it is too easy to make an error, so today I have a java script program to work it out, I wrote the program, but once written I could test it with known results, to prove no errors. And today we do tend to use programs to calculate for us, needed the maths to write the program, but once written, I could forget it.

So if we look as some very simple jobs, like wiring a house, we pace out the runs, we know 106 meters is the limit, and we plan where the rings will go. But for an existing house, first job is to work out how much cable already used in the ring final, if 100 meters already used, then we can't really extend the ring, we don't want to disconnect the ring to measure before planning, so we use the loop impedance tester and the readings from the tester once calculated can tell us how close we are to the limits.

One question raised is if you get it wrong, will you get caught, and if so, what will it cost to correct? I was lucky, when I installed a 32 amp socket with 6 mm cable I had said before starting to boss, are you sure, I think it needs 10 mm, but machines are normally not that critical to voltage, it was bad luck the machine being used was very voltage critical. (A heat shrink machine)

When my dad did his apprenticeship he did a journeyman which was 6 months in 4 different firms, so he knew more that just what his firm did, this was replaced by my time with collage where I did the bits like mineral insulated cable which my firm did not do. I have seen stone cottages with mineral insulated cable, but in domestic it is rare. To be frank when I have come across it, I have sub-contracted the work to some one use to working with it.

If some one asked me to explain newton's electrical theory today I would struggle, with what I have done to-date, not really needed it, however I know it exists so can refresh when required using the internet.

Did a course on IT (information technology not insulated from terrestrial) and was taught how to use switches and routers, again can't remember it today, but know where to look if I need it.

So we have the fools rush in where angles fear to tread, because I know my limits, I also know not to take on a job using mineral cable, and being an electrician is as much about knowing what you don't know, and back healing jobs out of your comfort zone, if you can. But there is a limit, I remember finding working as a charge hand electrician on the Falklands that one guy didn't even know how to use ohms law, think he thought I said homes law and it was a building regulation. Likely thought Sherlock Holmes was a block of flats?