DIY Questions around building an understair cupboard

[thestraycat]

Hi guys,

DIY'er looking for some friendly advice on materials, technique and opinions a small understair cupboard i'd like to build. (im not a joiner or carpenter)

We want to build out an understairs cupboard to hide the gas/consumer unit and give us some storage for the hoover etc.

I've designed a rough sketch up of what we're looking to build.
I've traced what i think is the gas pipe in the ground and did a mock up of the cupboard with some old timber we had loads lying about to gauge whether it works in our small space.
as our reception is a little tiny.

My questions to anyone in the know:

1. Traditional stud wall timbers look pretty chunky and a little overkill for our under the stairs cupboard. What would be a good size/grade of timbers to construct the frame? They'll
be no pull out bits and bobs, it will simply be a frame to hold the sides up.

2. Trying to avoid plastering it, so what material would you suggest for the boards that attach to the stud work? (Ply, mdf, something else?) I was shooting for MDF/Ply and then using some
moulding to create a nice detailed finish and to hide and joins and nail holes?

3. Are there any options to attach the bottom timber frame to the screed/concrete floor that dont involve screwing? I have a gas pipe which a gas engineer loosely chased for me using my
own £40 bosch electric/stud finder. We're pretty sure we know where they are but if there's a safer fixing option, then i'm all for it. Any construction adhesive up to the task? it'll be
mounted to brick at the sides and wood underneath the stairs for what its worth.

4. Are pocket screws ample to hold the frame together or if i can get away with thinner timbers would 90 degree angle brackets or similar work for stability of the frame?


Any info, tips etc would be great.

- Looking for dimensions i should use for the frame timbers
- Thickness and material type of the side panels
- Which type of screws to use to anchor it to the walls and to attach the frame
- Any adhesives that could be used? etc.

Anything helps cheers guys, i've got an idea of how i'll go about it but thought i'd keep my opinion out the thread.

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[big-all]

general comments
all doors will have to hinge on the upside unless you have e really thick top frame then you might get close to 90 degrees
if your door goes to a point you need remove most off the back off the point as the door at 90% will follow slope at 42 degree angle

[dewaltdisney]

I have done a few of these understairs boxing in over the years. I have done them with an inner frame of 2" by 2" to which I attached MDF shaker doors and panels which are easy to make. Firstly make the door on the square end facing away from the stairs which will be a decent usable height. The panels are made out of 12mm MDF with strips of 6mm MDF which are glued on to make the shaker door/panel. The door will be 18mm at the edges so you can sink a mortice for the cup hinges. All of this needs careful measurement to ensure the panels sit flush. Don't try diagonal doors as they are difficult to get right. Painting is a slog.

DWD

[thestraycat]

general comments
all doors will have to hinge on the upside unless you have e really thick top frame then you might get close to 90 degrees
if your door goes to a point you need remove most off the back off the point as the door at 90% will follow slope at 42 degree angle

Thanks for the info, not up with the lingo, so not too sure what hinging on the upside means tbh. Do you have a pic or a link to better explain it to me?

Due to the dimensions of the reception area the right door in the picture can only open to 90 degrees before it hits the bottom stair where as the left hand door needs to open 170-180 degrees and lay practically flat against the understair cupboard to allow for good access to getting the hoover out etc.

The doors will be both be quite small and more like large cupboard doors i forsee... I was considering using a similar hinge to the attached picture on the left hand door. and using 2 x standard recessed 90 degree euro cupboard door hinges for the tiny right hand door? Would that work?

[big-all]

ok in you plan you have two opening doors the one on the right opens from the small rh edge now if its flush with the face off the stair sting then it will open as the door is forward off the string[stair side]but iff its set back at all the door will open a few inches before the rising edge off the door hits under the stair

[thestraycat]

ok in you plan you have two opening doors the one on the right opens from the small rh edge now if its flush with the face off the stair sting then it will open as the door is forward off the string[stair side]but iff its set back at all the door will open a few inches before the rising edge off the door hits under the stair

Ah i see what you mean. Yeah i'll make sure theres enough clearance. Do the hinges look suitable? any idea on what thickness MDF the doors should be?

[big-all]

its normally about 15mm up to perhaps 18mm but you need to read the spec also up to 4 hinges on about 8ft or 3 on six foot
i always choose 12mm mdf especially for small areas but with planted panels to give a frame you will have 15mm plus thick edges

[dewaltdisney]

Did you read my post? The two doors you propose make the cupboard unusable it really needs to be adjacent to the door in your photo. Okay, you may have to shift the wall mounted electric box slightly for the framing. The Shaker door build is of the style in your sketch the pseudo door frame is glued on strips of 6mm. You need 18mm for the cup hinges and quite frankly the lay on hinges will pull out the screws in use as the dor will be heavy. You can buy a 35mm Forstner bit to cut the stopped mortice and they are quite cheap https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-tct- ... 35mm/4977v

DWD

[thestraycat]

Did you read my post? The two doors you propose make the cupboard unusable it really needs to be adjacent to the door in your photo. Okay, you may have to shift the wall mounted electric box slightly for the framing. The Shaker door build is of the style in your sketch the pseudo door frame is glued on strips of 6mm. You need 18mm for the cup hinges and quite frankly the lay on hinges will pull out the screws in use as the dor will be heavy. You can buy a 35mm Forstner bit to cut the stopped mortice and they are quite cheap
DWD
[/quote]

@dewaltdisney - Hi there! i was viewing on my phone at the time and missed your reply didnt know how ad heavy this site is! Apologies!

"I have done a few of these understairs boxing in over the years. I have done them with an inner frame of 2" by 2" to which I attached MDF shaker doors and panels which are easy to make. Firstly make the door on the square end facing away from the stairs which will be a decent usable height. The panels are made out of 12mm MDF with strips of 6mm MDF which are glued on to make the shaker door/panel. The door will be 18mm at the edges so you can sink a mortice for the cup hinges. All of this needs careful measurement to ensure the panels sit flush. Don't try diagonal doors as they are difficult to get right. Painting is a slog.

>> Some good tips! thank you.

After holding up the mock pieces of wood to the space to simulate the cupboard it's become pretty evident that it'll have to be diagonal doors or nothing, unfortunately putting the doors on the square end, as much as i'd like too and i did test this with the missus, just dosnt look right as they sit too close to the front door, open up towards the adajacent wall too much so you cant say remove a hoover etc and with the space being aorund 70cm is just too slim to comfortably go in to get anything and lastly i wanted to retain the ease of use for a sparky or gas engineer to work on the CU or gas meter so i've placed the diagnoal door in line with those facilities so someone can tackle them head on. And tied to keep enough of a left hand side panel to the left hand door so the structure dosnt look out of proportion.

As the space is so small, it's actually more of a cupboard than a walk in to be honest, when the doors are open at the front, you reach in to the left or right and grab the hoover, without the need to go in. Not ideal but the dimensions mean you couldnt stand up in it if you wanted too.

12mm and 6mm shaker panels sounds ideal and what i was thinking too. Cup hinges all the way yeah. In terms of the timber frame construction and going for the diagonal doors, what fraework diagram looks more in going about this the right way to you?

I've included some quick sketches of 3 different ways of doing the timber, what one would you pick? I suppose i'm more concerned as to whether to have a piece of timber running along the top and bottom of the door opening or not really.... What do you think?

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[dewaltdisney]

I see your points. I think I would move the diagonal doors to the far left to maximise access, the hinge throws need to be calculated so the doors are not impeded and getting the diagonal top edges symmetrical is a pain. The frame is not so crucial as long as the uprights for the hinges are firmly tied in. For the frame the MDF fixed panels help the rigidity so you don't have to over engineer it.

DWD

[Grendel]

Just a thought to chuck in the mix . Hang the left hand door as you plan ( that will involve cutting the top edge of the door with a sort of leading edge , not square basically) and then fix the right hand door to it. You can use long flap surface mounted hinges screwed to the inside face. If you use a cranked hinge on the left hand side it should open to 180 degrees with the right hand door lieing practically flat against it giving you the most access possible.