Wobbly Rawplugs in Dot n Dab

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:23 pm

I have a curtain track fixed to a dot and dab wall and the rawlplugs used to attach the end brackets are a bit wobbly. By that I mean any downward force on the cord tends to lever the brackets away from the wall. On inspection the area around the rawlplugs is quite soft, presumably from years of downward force. It's clear from tapping around the wall that both brackets are located in areas between the dots (or is it dabs). The brackets are attached using using screws (2 for each bracket) into normal brown rawlplugs.

I'm not sure what's best to do here because of the condition of the plasterboard around the area of the rawlplugs. I have some corefix fixings for dot and dab walls but they're for heavy things and seem overkill for a curtain track, and I don't know how they'd cope with soft plasterboard. I've wondered about cutting away the dodgy plasterboard - probably about 2 or 3 inches square - but then what?

Any suggestions?

Someone-Else · Post by **Someone-Else** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:30 pm

I like that idea.

mrsparks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:23 pmI've wondered about cutting away the dodgy plasterboard - probably about 2 or 3 inches square

Screw a slightly smaller piece of timber to the wall that you can now see. Then cover it with the plasterboard you removed, and screw through the track into the timber.

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:03 pm

Someone-Else wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:30 pm I like that idea.
mrsparks wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:23 pmI've wondered about cutting away the dodgy plasterboard - probably about 2 or 3 inches square
Screw a slightly smaller piece of timber to the wall that you can now see. Then cover it with the plasterboard you removed, and screw through the track into the timber.

So, if I understand you correctly, fill the "void" between the plasterboard and the blockwork with a piece of timber? My only concern would be re-using the piece of plasterboard removed because it's likely to be in poor condition and will have no strength. However, I have odd pieces of plasterboard lying around so I could use them instead.

Actually, you've got me thinking now. I have some Soudal plasterboard adhesive (the pink foam stuff) and I've used that in the past to patch areas of dot n dab plasterboard - and that stuff sets rock hard. So what I might do is patch in a new piece of plasterboard (slightly bigger than the bracket because annoyingly the 2 screws are in the corners of the bracket. The only problem I've had with that foam is that expands slightly and you have to be careful to make sure the result is flush with the existing wall. The good thing is it doesn't need to be super tidy because it'll be hidden by the curtain anyway.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:34 pm

dependant on gap and weight you could pump in no nails but wont work iff the gap is too big

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:53 pm

The mystery deepens, as is often the case. I removed the 4 rawlplugs to see what was behind. Firstly they were very short - maybe 1.5 inches or smaller - brown and splayed at the end. There are two holes both ends, vertically aligned about 2 inches apart. When I put my screwdriver in the top holes it goes in about 55mm before it hits some metal. I wiggle it around and it's clear there's no blockwork there so I assume it's hitting the (catnic?) lintel. The bottom hole actually hits some blockwork and the depth of the hole from front of plasterboard to end of hole is about 35mm or more - so I don't think those holes were drilled for the existing rawlplugs.

So, what to do? Maybe best for the top holes is one of the drywall fixings that grip the plasterboard when screwed in - because there is a void that allows the back end to "scrunch up". The bottom holes could maybe just to with larger/longer rawlplugs. I'm just hoping the plasterboard in that area is strong enough and hasn't been weakened by the downward force of the curtains on the brackets.

I can't think of any way of reinforcing the plasterboard.

Thoughts?

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:21 pm

if its only 4 holes then pump in no nails to fill the area with a 2 or 3 inch disc to tie in all surfaces
but dependent on thickness say 25mm a week or 50mm 3 weeks as a precaution

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:47 am

Sorry, I must be slow as I'm not quite grasping what you mean - so would you mind explaining a bit more. There looks to be a void behind the top screws and no block to screw to, so if I pumped no nails in there it would just run down - and besides, the gap behind is at least 50mm.

What did you mean by disc?

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:56 am

ok 50mm is really to much
just ment as you pumped it in it would travel sideways and fill the gap like a mushroom so aim for 3 inch but ignore that now
Would screw in plasterboard fixings work??
random link
https://www.bes.co.uk/plasterboard-fixings-11011/

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:40 pm

Ah, OK. Thanks. Those fixings could work, depending on the condition of the plasterboard. I think it'll be trial and error. I'm hoping a long rawlplug will do for the bottom holes but I'll need something different for the top ones.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:05 pm

frame fixings may work as they go about 50mm before you get a thread basically a big rawl plug and sleeve through the frame you can buy then in tens or so from s/f and toolstation but the screw size may be too big
random link
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=frame+ ... 7-1&ia=web

wine~o · Post by **wine~o** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:20 pm

Corefix fittings are the correct way to go, you'll need a decent drill driver with hammer action though.

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:11 pm

wine~o wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:20 pm Corefix fittings are the correct way to go, you'll need a decent drill driver with hammer action though.

Unfortunately, as I said, the top hole has nothing behind it so I don't see how corefix will work. When I put my screwdriver in there is no block and the first thing I meet is something metal which I assume to be the lintel (of the catnic type). That in itself confuses me because my understanding is that on the inner skin of a cavity wall, blocks sit on the inner lip of the lintel so there should be some blockwork there. But that metal is only at most 55mm behind the plasterboard and blockwork is thicker than that surely..

However, it may work for the bottom holes, which appear to have blockwork behind them.

I have some corefix which I bought for mounting my TV on a dot and dab wall - so I have the gear, but I don't think it'll work.

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:30 pm

Update: failed miserably. The holes in the plasterboard have become so soft (I presume due to constant strain from the weight of curtains and downward force on the cord) that I've failed to get secure fixings. I even bought some Fischer Duopower in the hope that they would grip the plasterboard but all they do is spin in the hole.

If it was anywhere else on the dot n dab wall I'd cut out that area of plasterboard and either fit in a new piece, using Soudal plasterboard adhesive, or stick a piece of wood in there to screw into. However, given that there's a 50mm void behind the top hole, and I don't know how wide, or tall, that void is, I don't think I'll have anything to stick my "patch" to unless I cut out a large piece until I find some blockwork.

So, any bright ideas as to how to proceed?

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:34 pm

4x1" planed timber 1ft longer no nails full length 2 screws with fixings every 10-12"

mrsparks · Post by **mrsparks** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:07 pm

big-all wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:34 pm 4x1" planed timber 1ft longer no nails full length 2 screws with fixings every 10-12"

Do you mean as a batten the whole length of the window? That's how it was before these curtains were installed - installer advised removing the batten as they aren't very fashionable these days! BTW, the curtain track only has brackets at both ends, none in between.

Unless I've misunderstood?