www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk

Hi, I thought I'd start a new topic specifically about how to get into joinery as a career if you're already more advanced in years than the typical school-leaver apprentice.

I noticed a couple of other UHM forum users have mentioned their difficulties getting trained etc and that's been my experience too.

I hope I don't bore you, but if you're in the same situation hopefully my experience might be of interest, and I would like to hear your comments:


So 3 or 4 years ago, in Glasgow, I looked all over for someone who would take me on as an apprentice - from site joiners to cabinet makers. No success - I was basically told I was too old, they wanted school-leavers they could boss around and pay a pittance.

I did some other jobs and spent some time abroad, then moved to Sheffield last year, and tried again. I looked into what courses are available. On a google search for carpentry training courses, this came up at the top of the list:
http://www.theskillscentre.ltd.uk/carpentry.htm

I gave them a ring and soon after they rang back and said someone would come out to meet me to discuss my needs. I was very impressed! Until he turned out to be an arm twisting salesmen trying to push their course on me. He was very persuavive, saying there are thousand of jobs out there, good pay this course will change my life etc. It was accredited by the CITB and everything, but it cost £5000!!!! For mostly home study! So that was a no-no.

:read2:I looked at other distance learning courses advertised online, but the affordable ones didn't seem to be accredited by any reputable looking body. I wanted to gain a proper qualification. (Also in hindsight you really cannot learn to be a joiner just from books, you HAVE to work alongside someone and see how they do things - and how FAST they can do things, you just can't get there by studying and practicing on your own.)

When I looked into doing NVQs, at first I was advised that these were only available to recent school leavers, and the absolute maximum age was 25. I think this is just the upper age limit where the Government will provide funding for an official 'apprenticeship'.

So I pushed it some more and tried at Rotherham college, saying I realised I couldn't get funding but I would pay full course fees. They seemed strangely reluctant at first, then eventually one of the tutors got back to me. We agreed I could start at NVQ level 2 in wood occupations. It costs £660. But then he told me all I get for my money is a visit from him maybe 3 times in the year, so he can check I am learning the right things in my place of work. In other words the college themselves teach me absolutely nothing! They don't even do the day release thing anymore. It's entirely down to me to find work and get experience, I'd just be paying for someone to tick off the boxes and give me the certificate!! Sod that. I decided to just do my best to find work, and make sure I kept a record and photos, then at a later date when I have more money, submit it for an NVQ.

And finally I was lucky enough to find someone looking specifically for an adult apprentice. Knowing how rare this was I applied and was lucky enough to get it. So I've been working alongside an experienced joiner working on building sites and doing private domestic jobs. The market's not the best at the moment, but we're getting a fair bit of work lined up all the same thanks largely to having a good web page. And days when there's no work I'm practicing in his workshop.

On another thread, Carhartt Kid was telling me about Train to Gain

carhartt kid wrote:
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac ... 106&r.s=sl

As a self employed person, I am technically my own business! I just had my NVQ 3 paid for by government grants. Plus a couple of plant operator licences done through them for free too!! All in all, about 8k's worth of training. Makes the tax return not so painful!!!

This all sounds promising.

So, what has been other people's experience?

for people who are a little older i have just completed an ica level 2 it was evenings at my local college.

Cab you explain what an ICA level 2 is? Is it equivalent to an NVQ? How much did it cost?

its a nvq level 2 but because its college based its an ica. stupid but you can only achive a nvq while doing the job.. i can achive a nvq when (ha ha) i get a job cause all they do is send some1 from the college to take a look at what im doing and then thats it really. it cost me around £800 it would have been free if i didnt already have a nvq in woodmachining. in reply to the other post, i think in someways working in the furniture trade for 15 years is actually holding me back, purely because people think im on good money and maybe couldnt match it, but truth is im VERY good at my job but only paid around £15000 a year, so not that good hey, which is why i want to build a career as a joiner. kids these days want easy money and people like us take an interest and try to achive the best.

i wish you all the best and keep posting on your progress

ive never heard of an ica before, what does it involve? is it a nationwide type of thing? i could do with getting some qualifications myself.

ive been working as a builder (mainly joinery though) ever since i left school. just i was too daft to go to college when i was younger. im now 27 and that keeps getting put on the back burner.

i take it nvq's are more limited to under 25's? and another point would be that sometimes i dont do joinery related stuff. i may spend a month labouring with brickies or something. what would happen to the on site inspections in that case? if it were possible to just do the theory/ at school practical side that would be an ideal solution

Its full name is a INTERMIDIATE CONSTRUCTION AWARD. its the same training as a NVQ but the college have to see you putting it into practice on site " in the real world so to speak" and i agree with that cause all the tricks of the trade and the way to do things is all learned by working along side a time served carpenter.
i mean i have an ICA yes but you on the other hand are getting better knowledge by working with these pros and i would assume your already pretty handy yourself so you would breeze the course.
for a better view of things i suggest you ring your local college and they will sort you out no probs i think you can do the NVQ but it would mean full time college or 2 full days a week, but there are no age restrictions. my mother in-law just became a teacher at the ripe age of 52.... .
oh and to answer the question about how accessing your work, they make a date that suits you both, so you let them know when your doing some joinery.
hope i have been a little help to answer your questions.

ohh lol i thought that was what an nvq was all about. hmm yeah im fairly well sorted now i guess.

well i guess i could pop by my local colleges to see what they have to say about it.

Yeah, as I understood it, it's not that there's an age restriction on NVQs, you just may not get the funding and government support.

But as whitt says, you're in a good position if you're already doing bits of joinery work on site. Start getting photos of you doing various joinery tasks - you will need to submit these to get the NVQ, as proof you've gained the experience.

And according to Rotherham college at least, you are not required to spend ANY time at college doing 'theory', they expect you to learn everything on site. So just keep doing what you're doing and start making it count towards the NVQ. Get advice from a college on what they would need from you.

ahh rite will do, my local college is just round the corner from me anyway