Biscuiting???

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:42 am

Hi can anyone help on this one? ... I am fitting a kitchen (2nd hand units). Two of my floor to ceiling units are too long so I've cut them down to size. I now have to reduce the doors at the top similarly.

It seems to be a good idea to cut them across the middle and joint them back together. I know I'll never get them to line up properly by dowelling. But what is bisuiting? And how do you do it?

I have been advised to use this method for joining my solid wood work tops. Size 20 biscuits were recommended. Can you buy these things of a shelf? If so, where would I get them?

Thanks.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:00 am

You need a biscuit joint machine to cut the biscuit recesses like this ...

Biscuits are available 'off the shelve' but tend to come in largish packets.

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:02 am

Are they easy to do?

If I got me a machine, obviously.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:24 pm

Don't know? Never done one!

But that picture is of one of my 2 biscuit jointer's I just sold that one

I'll be taking a few bits of wood and practising before doing anything that will be seen!

What I've read you need extra care when using one as they are/could be really nasty as you expose a rotating blade when you plunge into the wood

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:36 pm

What are the doors made of as there may be a better way to do ths job. Are they panel doors??

DWD

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:44 pm

Yes, they are panel doors. And yes, I reckon there may be a better way to do the job.

Any ideas?

Wood Magnet · Post by **Wood Magnet** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:07 pm

You could use dowel points to make sure the dowels line up.

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:11 pm

Hhhhm. Wary about dowelling all together. I'm not a carpenter and the last time I tried it I made a right f'ing mess.

I did think about glueing and butting the joints together on a totally flat surface and then laminating and large thin plywood panel behind it.

Not the most attractive solution but it would look fine with the doors shut I thought?

dewaltdisney · Post by **dewaltdisney** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:19 pm

If you look at the top edge of the doors they will probably be scribed joints. These are machined joints using male and female cutter profiles. These are hard to get apart with modern glues but depending on how much you have to play with you might be able to do a pro job. What you need to try to do is to preserve the profile joint on the cross rail and you need to accurately saw down the joint line. Cut the stiles, teh long edges, to the door length that you need. With careful work with a chisel you shoudl be able to clean out the cross rail joint ends and if all goes well you should be able to glue the door back up to the new size. Obviously teh panel will need to be trimmed before slotting it back..

Idea two would be to cut in the same way but biscuit or dowel the joints instead. You could of course screw right through the stiles into the cross rail and glue using some plugs to hide the screw holes. Plenty of ways to do it but I would recommend trying to disassemble and reassemble the scribe joints.

DWD

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:24 pm

Thanks for that.

I bought the kitchen as a job lot and there's tons of it so I have one or two door fronts to experiment with.

They are hand made in maple. Judging by the look of a broken door I have, the wood looks quite splintery so I guess I'm going to have to be careful.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:21 pm

dwd has the right begining

but like a real moulded component you only have to cut above the shoulder carefully below the shoulder you can use a handsaw jigsaw ect
as long you cut square to the shoulder as thats what the bottom rail squares up against

in other words assuming you are cutting off more than the width of the rail
cut off the bottom rail and the bits of the side rails attached at this stage make shure you have at least 7mm more length on the side rail than you need

cut the bottom rail on the line removing the bits of the side rail but exactly on the joint both sides the bottom rail is now ready for doweling

remove the panel from the remaining part of the door
alighn the bottom rail exactly in position on top where the shoulder is and the outer edge of the moulding

the shoulder is where the flat face stepps down or the point you get a change off direction on the face edge only

you can now remove all the material below the shoulder line from the side rails both sides you will only now have the moulding overlapping

you can now carefully mitre the moulding on both the side and bottom rails or you can scribe them together

the back of the rails will look stepped at the bottom where they join but much easier than introducing a stepped shoulder

you will of course have to shape the bottom of the side rails this will be the most visible part off the the repair if done wrongly

have you worked out what the extra 7mm is for yet

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:39 pm

Hhhmm.

I think that the absence of pictures is a bit of a stumbling block. I'd be curious to know if anyone else can work it out?

I'm not usually known for being thick, but hey, there's always a first time! lol

I might try printing the text and looking at it with the Components to hand. Thanks for the info.

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:25 pm

does this help you visualise

http://www.tooled-up.com/Artwork/ProdPD ... ge_051.pdf

Edz · Post by **Edz** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:05 am

The pics certainly help. I guess that the tools used are fairly critical. Looking at the pic, it seems that the cutter is used in a dedicated bench type machine?

I guess that if you use a hand held router then it's all about jigging and clamping?

big-all · Post by **big-all** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:22 am

sorry wrong pictute then

all you need to do is accuratly square the end off the the bottomrail to the exact length

you then remove the moulding in both side rails at the correct point

you could do it all with a handsaw if your accurate enough

you just need to cut the moldings at 45 %so they match up above the the shoulder line

ok lets try a different approach

you have some 2x1" that you have cut a rebate for a panel now when you try and butt up the 2 bits the rebate of course carries accross the end of the bottom rail
to make the maximum contact you remove the rear portion of the rebate on the side rail this new flat surface is the shoulder

now imagine the same senario but now you have accidently glued the quadrent on by mistake so you now have a small mitre to allow the quad to meet

clear as mudd ehhh