Machining a window

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:15 pm

Hi,
I'm looking to manufacture a range of stormproof casement windows for myself and am looking for the correct procedures for doing this.

After sizing my timber should i be running my profiles and rebates on spindle moulder first and then doing my finger joints for sash corners on tenoner fitted with a suitably shaped spelch block to eliminate breakout of timber. ???
Or is it best to finger joint sash corners whilst the stock is still square and then run through spindle moulder to profile and rebate frame and sash sections???

Any advice relating to the above would be appreciated, thanks...

dirtydeeds · Post by **dirtydeeds** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:30 am

i run the mouldings first then deal with mortices and tennons or other joints

spelch blocks are useful

go to a joinery workshop and you will find the same, mouldings first joints after

Mr Mike · Post by **Mr Mike** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:07 pm

I'm not saying which is right or wrong, but I was always taught to follow the following procedure for any joinery item (windows, doors, etc...).....I can't speak for finger joints as have never used them..... :

1) Prep rod & cutting list from scale drawing
2) Select timber from stock
3) Plane timber on face side
4) Plane timber on face edge
5) Plane timber to width
6) Plane timber to thickness
7) Mark out timber from rod
8) Chop mortices
9) Rip down sides of tenons (but don't shoulder them yet)
10) Run square sections (rebates, grooves, etc.)
11) Run the moulded sections
12) Now cut the shoulders of the tenons
13) Fit the joints
14) Assemble item dry, check sizes, square and winding
15) Glue up inside faces or edges of timber
16) Glue up, re check sizes, square & winding
17) Clean up item
18) Fit and hang any casements, etc.

That's current City & Guilds philosophy anyway.

Don't shoot me ! I am merely the messenger.....

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:01 pm

Hi thanks for the quick response guys.
Its always better to get a second opinion or third or forth...........

Cheers

Tryanything · Post by **Tryanything** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:24 pm

Well here's the third
Run up all timber sections first
Mortice and tenon or whatever joint type you intend to use

Gadget · Post by **Gadget** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:29 pm

And here's the fourth!
Get your local joinery shop to make em!...

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:55 pm

Mr Mike · Post by **Mr Mike** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:27 am

Think about it.......It's a lot more difficult, and there's a lot more scope for inaccuracy, if you try to mark out mortices and tenons after having run intricate mouldings, rebates and grooves on a piece of timber. Joints are marked out and cut first on nice square sections of timber......ones that you can rest a try square on at the very least to begin with.

The reason for not shouldering the tenon's till after is it gives you some timber to support a router on it's run in and exit on a rail for example......or, for it's entry and exit from a spindle moulder.

There are few times I can think of when it wouldn't be done in this order.

......errrrr.............I'll get me coat.

dirtydeeds · Post by **dirtydeeds** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:55 pm

it sounds nice doing it all square section and im not saying its wrong

but if the mouldings are done you can "see" the face of the timber much more easily and therefore have less chance of getting the timber round the wrong way

although you have got to take more care when making the joints

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:06 pm

Mr Mike · Post by **Mr Mike** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:25 pm

Well I'll stick with my nice big 'face' marks on the timber to stop me getting things round the wrong way !

Anyway Steve, no use banging yer head......I thought you were a joiner ?!

It's apparent we all have our own ways of doing things, and with regards to joinery you'll find there's always 'several ways to skin a cat' as it were, none is the definitive way of doing things.....just what works for you....and gets you the desired end result.

(.......but deep down you know my way makes sense......

)

Steve. F · Post by **Steve. F** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:15 pm

Cheers

Mr Mike · Post by **Mr Mike** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:48 pm

horsefeathers · Post by **horsefeathers** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:22 pm

im a bench joiner thats been making stormproof sashes for 13 years day in day out and my preffered way is to:

rebate the stiles of the sash leave moulder set!

mortise the stiles to the timber size minus the rebate/mould

tennon the rails square section with long and short shoulders for the rebate

this way you dont need a backing piece for the tennoner

then mould/rebate the tennoned rails

glue up and fix in square frame section

then rebate/mould/capillary around the outside doing ends first with backing piece cut to suit square one end, rebate the other to suit

sometimes i can do this without a backing piece if conrolled off well enough!

then finish with mould on outside. ends first!!

yekshemesh!

Mr Mike · Post by **Mr Mike** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:35 pm

Coming from a bloke who does this day in / day out.....I would take note of Horsefeather's procedure pretty seriously....