Ceiling Rose, 4 live, 4 neutral problem.

[Alltheelectrics]

Someone tried to fit a new light with a modern 3 wire connection and pulled the old fitting without marking any of the wires to know what is what. Don't have the right stuff to get the modern one fitted currently. Trying to get the old one working correctly again for the time being.

The lighting set up has a downstairs and upstairs light that both work off 2 switches. Both switches switch both lights off and on at the same time. Well that is how it did work.

Currently went for this setup to fix it which works up to a point.


All upstairs lights work, including each room upstairs and both the light switches for the stairs lights will switch the upstairs light off and on but the downstairs light will not switch off. Upstairs goes off and on with the downstairs switch and upstairs switch but the downstairs one stays on no matter what.

Any help would be appreciated.

[scot-canuck]

Any chance of a photo of the back of the switch? and downstairs light connections.
Downstairs is light being fed with permanent rather than switched live, thats whats causing it.

[scot-canuck]

oh and

[Alltheelectrics]

Thanks, I am not sure if I can get pictures. I can at least describe it but will have to check it properly tomorrow. I did check the light fixture earlier today but only for a moment and not in great detail, can only really remember that I think it only had 1 wire, as in 1 live, 1 neutral and 1 earth. Haven't looked at the actual switch, I will get details tomorrow.

[scot-canuck]

If the ceiling rose is the only place changes have been made, then one of the Twin and earth cables is the switched feed for the downstairs light. (I assume I'm interpreting correctly that both lights are turned on or off by one of 2 single switches?

[scot-canuck]

Usually you have Permanent Live In, Permanent live out and a switched feed for the light.
Your diagram shows an extra cable...that cable is the switched feed for the downstairs light, the red from it needs connected to the other terminal beside the black sleeved with red, the black on that cable then goes to the neutral terminal.

[Alltheelectrics]

So the black should stay where it is but one of the reds in the middle terminal, the one for the downstairs switch needs to go into the left terminal?

[scot-canuck]

Correct: Its just figuring out which one is the issue. Mark each red distinctly and try them in sequence

[Alltheelectrics]

Not sure if what we have this right, I might not have explained the situation well. I had both switches working but they only worked for the upstairs light switching it off and on while the downstairs light would always stay on no matter what. Only the upstairs wiring has changed.

I tried switching the reds into the left terminal with the black. One wire made it so the switches would work for the downstairs light but not the upstairs one, sort of a reverse of what I already had. Another didn't work and I couldn't get the third to reach, since some setup worked originally I guess it isn't that.

I have a picture of the downstairs light, pretty simple and a picture of the setup for the upstairs light I started with, not a good angle but it pretty much setup as the diagram. I can get a picture behind the switches if needs be but would prefer not to as they have filler all around them for some reason and would probably have to redo it because of needing to force them off the wall.

[scot-canuck]

I need to have a think.... As this especially has me

I tried switching the reds into the left terminal with the black. One wire made it so the switches would work for the downstairs light but not the upstairs one, sort of a reverse of what I already had. Another didn't work and I couldn't get the third to reach, since some setup worked originally I guess it isn't that.

[wine~o]

Mind if I join in Scot??

second pic is obviously correct, 1st is where the problem lies...I can't see which cores come from which cable.. (which may help..)

a couple more pics from different angles may help..and although the wiring at the switches hasn't been altered. it would still benefit us to know what is what at the switches....

[scot-canuck]

Feel free Wine~o, I'm doing 3 things at once currently (including the dreaded paperwork) and always helps to have another perspective.

[scot-canuck]

As far as I can tell by looking, the attached pic should show what is connected to what.

Make life easier wine~o?

[Alltheelectrics]

Yes that is how I think it is. The cable furthest to the left I think was the one with the red that I put in with the black on the left terminal to have both switches work the downstairs light but not the upstairs, it was stuck on. That current set up is downstairs stuck on and both switches work upstairs.

[OnlyMe]

Well one of the reds should be with the black switched live cable. Three attempts at most to get it working.