Blind Rivet Bolts/Nuts. Has anyone used them?

[Grumps]

I'm presuming that they are somewhat akin to Rawlbolts but for metal as opposed to masonry?

We have a problem. (Who doesn't?) The problem being that we often have to re-skin, in 2mm steel, an area that has 'captive' attachments. Normally the Imperial equivalent of M10 studs. The change of thread is not a problem.

The 'system' so far, has been to attach the assembly to the body metal and then to weld the nut in a 'captive' position. Albeit that the attachment should be via a stud and nut. If we use a bolt into a 'captive' nut, nothing is lost. It carries a load, but not of excessive proportions.

Hence, I've been looking for quicker and easier options.

I've found this .PDF file,

http://www.bbafasteners.com/catalogue/K ... l%20UK.pdf

What it comes down to is, "what are the set-up" costs in relation to tools needed, and the cost and availability of M10 bolts/nuts when used in smaller quantities?

[Hitch]

'Rivnuts'

If its just the odd few every so often, £75-100 would probably get you a basic hand tool setup...

Ideally, a pneumatic tool is the way forward, especially if time is important, but you may be looking at £500 for a quality one.

Whats the job in hand?

[Hitch]

Forgot to mention, names to search for are Avdel Textron and Gesipa....
Both top quality.

[thegreenfroggy]

We use blind fasteners alot (in their many and wild forms!!) and they are a quick and better looking alternative to tack welding nuts to a job. We invested in a pneumatic tool as we found the hand ones often stripped the thread of the insert (from M4 to M6) and the strength required to put even an M6 insert in required Hulk-like strength.

The tool in your PDF looks better than the one we used but i would advise that if this will be a repeated job you spend some cash and get a decent pneumatic or battery operated tool. Sadly they are expensive and are prone to breaking down so get one you can also return when a fault occurs (for me it's always on the LAST insert to put in when the job HAS to go out that day) Plus if you're doing up to M10 get a few spare parts because the tool can jam as it unscrews itself from the insert and strip its own threads.

Hope this helps.

Martyn.

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[thegreenfroggy]

Sorry Mod. I hadn't realised that. Thanks for the reminder.

[Grumps]

Whats the job in hand?

Repairing/restoring railway carriage end connections at a Heritage Railway, hence a pneumatic option is out of the question at those prices.

It's only for 2 or 3 dozen about once or twice a year and using the 'grunt' option atop a scaffolding tower is perhaps not advisable. Another idea bites the dust.

It will continue to give the Welders something to do.

Thanks ALL for the replies.

[Hitch]

Awesome! Got any more work photos Grumps?

If i had the time, id love to get involved with railway restoration.


Theres is another way to do the inserts, but it can be a bit hit and miss.

Use a longish bolt screwed into the insert, then a decent washer, which needs to be a nice tight fit on the bolt, then a nut on the bolt.

Hold the head of the bolt still, and then tighten the nut down onto the washer, and pulling the back of the insert up as you tighten.
Its a slow way of doing it, but it does work.

[Grumps]

Awesome! Got any more work photos Grumps?

There's a twice/thrice weekly Blog on the subject. http://cwatgwsr.blogspot.co.uk/ but I'm not saying which one is myself.

If i had the time, id love to get involved with railway restoration.

Somerset? You've probably got the West Somerset Railway on your doorstep. It's all about volunteering and helping out with no fixed commitment. Some do a couple of days a week, others a couple of days a year. I normally refer to is as, "A load of old men moaning about other old men." But we STILL get things done.

Theres is another way to do the inserts, but it can be a bit hit and miss.

Use a longish bolt screwed into the insert, then a decent washer, which needs to be a nice tight fit on the bolt, then a nut on the bolt.

Hold the head of the bolt still, and then tighten the nut down onto the washer, and pulling the back of the insert up as you tighten.
Its a slow way of doing it, but it does work.

NOW you've got me thinking! THAT would be for the 'nuts' version. For the bolt/stud variant, washer + nut, and then, assuming sufficient thread, two more nuts 'locked' together. Hold the bolt/stud steady against rotational force and use the first nut to expand the rivet.

Mmmm. Might be worth getting a few as a trial.

Thanks for that.

[Hitch]

Yeah, you've got it! Assuming the stud is long enough for 2.5-3 nuts.

The East Somerset Railway is the nearest to me.

Will have a look at the pages in a bit, cheers

[ultimatehandyman]

Sorry Mod. I hadn't realised that. Thanks for the reminder.

No problem, welcome to the forum BTW

[ultimatehandyman]

Whats the job in hand?

Repairing/restoring railway carriage end connections at a Heritage Railway, hence a pneumatic option is out of the question at those prices.

It's only for 2 or 3 dozen about once or twice a year and using the 'grunt' option atop a scaffolding tower is perhaps not advisable. Another idea bites the dust.

It will continue to give the Welders something to do.

Thanks ALL for the replies.

What a brilliant project

I have used rivnuts in the past at work, from what I remember the setting tool was expensive for what it is, so I’d be using Hitch’s method

[Grumps]

Thanks for the interest. As for other photos,

Recently out shopped, TO 4790.



Which is often referred to as the 'Disabled Carriage', which makes it sound as though it goes down the track with a pronounced 'limp'. I prefer the term, 'wheelchair accessible'.



Inside view. Although I was only involved in the periphery, the work involved; water tank and two toilet areas removed. Skin fabric cut away and single external doors converted to double doors. Double seat replaced by single seat. Single sliding compartment door replaced by double sliding doors. Hand rail and removable table tops fitted in the 'wheelchair' area. Along with all of the seats being reupholstered. The 'ethic' driving the conversion was that wheelchair bound visitors would be able to be seated equally with their carers/companions. AFAIK this is the first and only such conversion (in the UK), and it took over a year to complete.

The Board are now asking for another two such conversions.

However, recently seen attached to a Wagon in the yard is,



dream on.

[Hitch]

Brilliant work. Keeps you all busy eh!

Loving the sign!

[pud1771]

looks good grumps love the refurb off the carriage funny this thread is on here as me and a guy I work with have been talking about doing some volunteering on a local one to us you may have heard of it grumps the Whitwell and Reepham railway in Norfolk. I am looking towards doing more of the track side line and heavy maintenance where he is thinking of doing the smaller more delicate stuff and engine based maintenance. If it is ok (will check in with the mods and chez before i do it) when we start to do this will make a thread asking some questions and putting my stories up for anyone else to add to or ask questions if they interested may also pm you grumps if that ok if i have any questions before we join up
Andy