www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:33 pm**

I think it should be called "windows hate" (8)

In a moment of "desperation" a while ago, I brought a new desktop pc, it comes with windows 8 pre installed.
I really don't use it much as I formatted the hard drive on this one and installed everything again.
(You may recall, some one suggested a gadget to swap monitor / keyboard / mouse between pcs. That is still working)

But windows 8 is really not designed for anything other than a tablet or something with a big touch screen (certainly not phones, Mrs, had one, dumped it, PITA to use on a phone)

I have my windows 8 pc set up as a "normal" pc is (like this one, icons and menus via the desktop) Some times the windows 8 pc will open a "thing" (app ? / programme) and when finished it will not go away, so in desperation I unplug the damn thing.

Today I found out the windows button on the keyboard brings up all the icons. like they would be on a tablet.

I still hate windows 8.

Do you have windows 8 and if so on what, and how do you find it?

I think I read there is going to be a free update for all windows 8 users that puts a start button on it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:45 pm**

I watched a video on Youtube about Win8, when it was at the beta testing stage. Microsoft allowed users to download the preview version for free. This chap had loaded it on a PC and introduced his father to it . His dad used Win XP and was fairly proficient with that system. After about 2 minutes using Win8 he was lost, hopelessly. His son kept videoing him struggling to come to terms with it then asked him to shut the computer down. I think he gave up after ten minutes and held the button in on the computer to force it to shut down.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:51 pm**

Apparently you can download an app called Start8 for about $5 which gives a more familiar interface to Win 8

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:59 pm**

If there are drivers for your hardware, you can exercise your "downgrade rights".

Basically means you can legally install Windows 7 and they will give you a key. You need the media though, but shouldn't be a big issue.

Hang on for the update before you jump.

BG

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:18 pm**

Here you go, nice and simple:

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensi ... vkM071cbFR

Get a disc with a key - genuine, doesn't matter if it's been used. Install Windows 7 - the correct SKU (Pro). When it activates and fails, call up and tell them you are using your downgrade rights - they give single use key to activate. Job done.

Make sure you get correct media though, must be OEM version - not retail (FPP - full priced product) or it won't activate.

what's not to like...

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:21 pm**

I recently ended up with a Windows 8 laptop also after putting it off for some time because I didn't like the look of Windows 8. Its true that you can get third party apps which will give you back a Start Menu and (I hear) disable the Metro/Modern blocky tile things. I have the former but not the latter so far. Will be lookng into disabling the tiles as they have no positive function for me.

If you're in teh same boat its worth remembering some keyboard shortcusts for when those pesky tiles appear. If you end up in an app that you didn't want, Alt+F4 will close it. Windows key + D will get you back to the desktop (actually in Windows 8 it will get you back to the desktop app you were working in when the pesky tiles app appeared uninvited).

I wouldn't hold your breath for MS to release an update to put things "right". They have already eschewed that opportunity with Windows 8.1 They want to ram the new look down our throats and will keep at it as long as they are selling enough copies.

Sadly they have fiddled with other bits of the user interface also which mean I'm now much less productive than I was.

Per the suggestions above, I'm seriously considering grabbing a copy of Windows 7 for the new laptop. I have one other laptop on Windows 7 which has always been rock solid and works fine. Really annoying that after years of MS having unstable OSes, they finally get one that works and then promptly mess it up again. My other PC is still on Vista. As bad as Vista can be, I won't be upgrading that to 8.

Stuart

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:09 pm**

Which bits have made you less productive?

I'm using it on my main desktop and work laptop, nothing has really got in my way or caused me any hassle that might warrant a good shouting at.

I must say, other than the love of resources that Vista have I don't get the whole unstable thing. It's only as good as the hardware and drivers on the machine with the software users install to make things work - hardly the fault of Microsoft.

If an OEM decides to install some butchered motherboard, poor power supply or cheap components coupled with a bad software build then they are the ones to blame. Likewise when a perfectly good machine is riddled with buggy software, it's the users fault, really.

Not that I'm blaming you - I've had rock solid computing for a long while now. In fact, the last issue I had was actually a BIOS issue with my work laptop - I think I had 7 updates before it was fully resolved, which is insane.

It's like when people say OSX is MUCH better. It's usually when comparing a 300 quid desktop PC with a 2000 quid Mac Pro or something similar. Stick some crappy software on OSX and watch the sad face appear quicker than the kettle can boil.

There are problems, but think of the complexities of making an OS work on practically an unlimited combination of hardware with an unlimited combination of drivers and an unlimited combination of applications running

Hats off I say.

BG

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:36 pm**

BillyGoat wrote:Which bits have made you less productive?

I'm using it on my main desktop and work laptop, nothing has really got in my way or caused me any hassle that might warrant a good shouting at.

I must say, other than the love of resources that Vista have I don't get the whole unstable thing. It's only as good as the hardware and drivers on the machine with the software users install to make things work - hardly the fault of Microsoft.

If an OEM decides to install some butchered motherboard, poor power supply or cheap components coupled with a bad software build then they are the ones to blame. Likewise when a perfectly good machine is riddled with buggy software, it's the users fault, really.

Not that I'm blaming you - I've had rock solid computing for a long while now. In fact, the last issue I had was actually a BIOS issue with my work laptop - I think I had 7 updates before it was fully resolved, which is insane.

It's like when people say OSX is MUCH better. It's usually when comparing a 300 quid desktop PC with a 2000 quid Mac Pro or something similar. Stick some crappy software on OSX and watch the sad face appear quicker than the kettle can boil.

There are problems, but think of the complexities of making an OS work on practically an unlimited combination of hardware with an unlimited combination of drivers and an unlimited combination of applications running

Hats off I say.

BG

Oh come on BillyGoat...everybody knows windows 8 is shite........

the only people that like it are microsoft management...

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:47 pm**

Have you used it?

It's so easy to cast an opinion based on things you have read! These are the same people who still think that XP was the pinacle of computing and that it went wrong from there, the same people who copy and paste each others work from site to site claiming it as news. I've sat in the pub and listened to people telling me how the latest Enzo isn't as good as the old one

they saw it on TV and a magazine.......I'd be VERY happy with either, I tell you.

I agree it's better on touch at the moment, for sure, but I still like it.

From a productivity point of view, it's made MY life MUCH easier. It's got Hyper-V (virtual computers) which means I've now got upto 5 less servers/machines running in my office = Less power used and a cooler room. It's stupidly quick to start up when I turn it on. As of yet, I think I've had it on my machine since July and it's not crashed once.

I've had an issue shutting down, but that's been resolved with the latest round of hotfixes - but that's purely because of the hardware I'm using, which I accept was the cause.

Metro (the tiles) is actually useful for some things, depends on your needs really. I like the app store, handy.

But, it's not everyones cup of tea, which I do accept. The simple fact is, if you don't like it - don't use it! Use any of the older versions. Use Apple products and OSX. Use FOSS if it floats your boat. That's the wonderful thing about computers, it's anyone's game!

BG

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:56 pm**

BillyGoat wrote:Have you used it?

only in comet/currys whatever they're called.....

I agree it's better on touch at the moment, for sure, but I still like it.

I prefer a mouse and a keypad...call me old fashioned..

I've had an issue shutting down,

I can tell.........

Metro (the tiles) is actually useful for some things, depends on your needs really. Nope....not a scooby???

But, it's not everyones cup of tea, which I do accept.PG, no sugar and semi-skimmed...
BG

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:03 pm**

Windows 8.1 is coming soon, maybe September? and I think free to anyone with 8.0. It should be an improvement, although reports on the beta say it still isn't back to previous Windows levels of usability

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:04 pm**

Tyre kicker.......

Shame you live so far, or I'd come and make you use it for a week or so as punishment!

BG

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:06 pm**

Icm76 wrote:Windows 8.1 is coming soon, maybe September? and I think free to anyone with 8.0. It should be an improvement, although reports on the beta say it still isn't back to previous Windows levels of usability

I just don't get it ICM. Why do people hate change so much. I'm sure the people who got 3.1 moaned that icons and pictures were stupid. And so the story goes.

I think the acid test for me, is my parents and in-laws. in-laws have just got a new Sony laptop and the LOVE it. The only thing they were unsure of is when IE opened in the Metro (the big square colourful tile interface) UI. Few clicks and that's sorted so it opens in desktop mode.

Meh.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:27 pm**

BillyGoat wrote:I just don't get it ICM. Why do people hate change so much...

It's all a bit moot for me, I spend 99% of my computer time in Linux but I empathise with the Windows 8 haters and I can't be bothered to try it. For Linux users the reaction to the GNOME 3 and Unity desktops were as negative, if not more negative than the reactions to Windows 8. Despite being WIP at least Cinnamon is good and geared toward mouse and keyboard users.

I get why MS need a touchscreen tablet friendly OS, but it doesn't appeal to me at all.

Posted: **Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:06 am**

BillyGoat wrote:Which bits have made you less productive?

e.g.

Metro popping up uninvited (partially tamed now),
Dragging a file from explorer on to an open email. I use this frequently with Vista and 7. It doesn't work on my Windows 8 machine. I drag the file in Explorer, Alt Tab to my open email and its gone. Go back to Explorer and there's a new shortcut for the file.
Start menu
Metro apps being the default app for a file type when they have less functionality and/or are harder to use without a touchscreen than the desktop app.

Its small things like this where I feel they've broken what has developed into a fairly productive UI over many years. Worse, its driven by Dogma and a desire to support tablets. I understand how it makes sense for MS but not for users like me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an MS basher and an Apple fan - I don't get all that. I have a mix of all of these (including some Linux stuff too) and have worked in IT for 20+ years and used all versions of Windows since DOS.

8 does have advantages with fast boot as you say being one of them. I don't see many however compared to Windows 7 which was stable and productive however and not enough for me after 4 months of trying with Windows 8 to outweigh the drawbacks.

I don't think Vista is overly unstable. Mine is pretty good but they did screw up a lot of user interface and other conventions which caused many headaches. My point was really that they listened and made 7 a very good product.

Sounds like Windows 9 may be where it's at

Stuart

www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk

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