Newly installed wall tiles popping/cracking noise!

[MikeGrahamT21]

Hi all,

Recently re-done our bathroom, and since we've moved back in we keep getting popping/cracking noises coming from the wall tiles, which sounds like we're being shot at, and is a little disconcerting to say the least!

I've tracked the noise down to one single wall, which is an old fashioned partition wall, breeze block sitting on wood on a joist. When we were doing the installation, the wall was completely bare bricked, as it had 2 layers of tiles and browning on previously, so thought id start fresh. Wall wasn't straight in the least!

We used no more ply on all walls and floors in the room, as a waterproof substrate, as we've had a lot of problems with excess moisture in the house in the past, so my aim was to airtight and watertight the bathroom, and this part of it at least seems to have worked! RH is sitting at 49% most days.

No more ply recommend using flexible tile adhesive to stick the boards on, however I've always found Drywall adhesive to be very strong, and much cheaper, so we opted for this. Wall was brushed down prior to starting to remove excess dust. As an extra method of bonding I also hammered nails through the board into the wall at different angles.

Tiled on top of this with ceramic tiles, and non-slip tile adhesive (don't think this was flexible, from toolstation), and flexible grout (mapei). For a good week, we had no problems at all, then all of a sudden cracking/popping noises started which really make you jump, and sound horrendous! I've been checking around, and eventually tracked it down to be this particular wall, and then noticed some cracks in the grout, near one of my corners at the top of the wall, so just thought, ah I must have cut them a bit too tight, but since they were silicone at the edge, i'd leave them as they weren't going anywhere. Since that discovery not had any cracking noises for a few days, until this morning, and there was an almight crack, followed by ripping sounds and more cracks. Went in the bathroom expecting carnage, but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. I think I can see a crack in some more grout (again on the top row of tiles) which wasn't there before, but can't be sure. I've been round all of the tiles, and pressed on them hard, and they all seem firm enough, certainly none loose aside from the ones mentioned above.

Alsorts has gone through my mind this morning, like, is the wall caving in! This house has had woodworm in the past, and the area around this wall was the worst of it. I couldn't remove the joist under this wall for obvious reasons, as knocking the wall down and starting again wasn't an option, so what I did was built under the joist from the over site level with the correct damp proof etc, as a bit of an insurance.

Hopefully someone has got some ideas of what could be going on here, to help me get a good nights sleep lol!

Oh and of course, I am a true DIYer, this wasn't something i'd done before, but spent a long time researching everything, so hope I've got it right!

[royaloakcarpentry]

No more ply..................cement boards............drywall adhesive!!!!!!!!!!!!

You might want to read the sticky at the top of the tiling section.

[Razor]

If they're cement based boards - Oh dear

There's a reason they never said to use board adhesive. It'll be stuck to the wall rock hard but the boards will just pull away.

I think you're going to end up redoing it sooner rather than later

[MikeGrahamT21]

Yeah I did read the sticky, and it worried me slightly, redoing it is NOT an option. The no more ply site does say to use tile adhesive, which I can't see is that different to drywall adhesive?? Should I have used tile adhesive for this job?

I did put plenty of nails through the boards to hold em in place, mainly whilst the adhesive dried to be honest, but obviously left them in place. I've been round all the boards and tapped on them, and as far as I can tell, its just a small section of this particular wall which sounds hollow to the tap (which I seem to remember now at the time I thought it felt a good bond, so I didn't put any nails in this particular bit), so I'm going to drill a small hole and use some of the window frame fixings you can buy to secure them in place. I guess over time, I could do this all over, rather than taking everything off, which as I said isn't an option.

So my idea is to use the cross joints on the tiles, and drill my hole there, put the fixing in and tighten up, then grout over the screw head, yeah?

[moderator6]

That's worth a try but as said board adhesive isn't the same as tile adhesive. It's like comparing potatoes to carrots!!

Interesting that the bit you didn't reinforce with nails is the bit that's blown first.

You can try screwing them now as you have nothing to lose. If it's not grouted I'd be tempted to pop off every one in 6 tiles or so and screw the boards using washers to get a much better fixing

[MikeGrahamT21]

Yeah I know what you mean, and with hindsight I would have done this from the word go, but I was almost sure I was doing the right thing, obviously not :(

Bathroom has been completed for nearly 2 months now, and all has been fine apart from the odd cracking sound, but it seems to be getting more frequent.

Luckily only got 3 walls to worry about, and 1 was battened with timber anyway to bring the wall in a bit for the shower, and one of the other walls has got the window in it, but that one seems solid anyway, so not too worried about that one. The only other wall, which also seems solid has the bath pushed up against it, so that will hold it some way, but if I start having problems, I can think about doing the screwing in that too.

This was my first attempt at a bathroom (very proud even with a few mistakes!), never done anything like this before, but spent ages reading up, obviously read the wrong bits lol! Ah well, next bathroom I do will be in a dormer when it gets built, and therefore will be timber battens anyway, so shouldn't have the same problem again!

[darrenba]

I guess the reason they state flexible tile adhesive is because it's flexible - I'd pretty much assume that dry wall adhesive is not.

What tile adhesive did you use for fitting the tiles?

[MikeGrahamT21]

I guess the reason they state flexible tile adhesive is because it's flexible - I'd pretty much assume that dry wall adhesive is not.

What tile adhesive did you use for fitting the tiles?

I started off with flexible adhesive made by ****, powered stuff which you mix up, and it was absolutely rubbish. By the time I'd mixed it by machine, got it in the house and started tiling, I got 3 or 4 tiles on and the whole mix was setting in the bucket! I mean it said rapid, but jeez.

In the end I bought some 701 Acrylic Tile Adhesive from Toolstation which I've used in the past, not sure if its flexible or not.

I discovered where the cracking noises came from last night. Basically where the backerboards join (and I used the NMP Megastrength adhesive on the joins as they suggest!), the tiles have split, I've counted around 9 tiles so far which I can see have cracked. So the plan is, hope it stays OK over winter, im going to put a few screws in the wall which is a bit suspect, and then I'm going to remove as many tiles as I can, screw the boards as I should have done first time round, and then re-apply the tiles.

Should I bother with flexible adhesive?? My only reason for saying that is that where I did manage to use the flexible adhesive, they've cracked too, so I don't see the difference really between flexible and none flexible.

Any tips for removing tiles in one piece? I'm going to order some more, but would rather save as many as I can. Obviously the ones which are bust, there will be no saving.

[darrenba]

What size tiles do you have?
Yeah don't choose rapid set. You just need a flexible standard set adhesive

[royaloakcarpentry]

You are going to end up in a whole world of pain.

Basically you have a massively bodged job and one which if done by a 'tradesmen' would have everyone telling you not to pay him a penny for the work.

It isn't just a case of taking off a few tiles, putting some screws through the aquapanel and then tiling again. The aquapanel is going to be damaged to the point of making it useless as a tiling background, when you take off tiles and adhesive. Trust me, I have had to correct a persons bodge with a cement board background.

The picture of the shower enclosure also looks like you have water penetrating to the outside of the enclosure. The grout lines are darker!

Probably better to put it down to experience and pay for a firm to come in and rip the whole lot out and do a proper job for you which will last.

[MikeGrahamT21]

Tiles are 300x450's.

I appreciate I've messed up,decided to remove the tiles on these walls,screw them correctly and then retile, though not til next year. I can't see as the NMP will be damaged, must be different to aquapanel as I took a damaged tile off during instalation and it cleaned up just fine.

As for your comment regarding water penetration, I can assure you this is not the case,its simply the oils from the silicone which have changed its color nothing more.

[darrenba]

Those size of tile are not suitable for a ready mixed adhesive, you must use a cement based bagged flexible adhesive.

At least they should come off easy

[royaloakcarpentry]

Wrong adhesive has worked in your favour..........

Get the tiles off and soak them in a bucket of hot water for 5 minutes and the adhesive will easily scrape off.

Wet the walls with hot water and leave for 5 minutes and again the adhesive will scrape off easily.


Where you went wrong with the rapid set adhesive was mixing a lot up and probably for too long at too fast a speed with the mixer. It is a doddle to work with when mixing small batches by hand.

You will need to use a cement based adhesive with those tiles and they ideally want to be back buttered.

[MikeGrahamT21]

Ok, so a cement based, bagged, flexible, standard set adhesive. Any recommendations? Also, please excuse my ignorance, but what is back buttering?

Process to remove tiles + adhesive sounds good.

I think I was mixing too much up to be honest with the rapid mix stuff, but it was heavy going. I used it for the floor tiles, as it was compatible with underfloor heating, and it worked a treat there, but for the walls, impossible.

[haveagohero]

Those tiles and boards need to come down ASAP! the boards are clearly coming off the wall if there are cracks in the tiles at the joint between the boards, just putting screws in will not do a lot to remedy this. Think about the weight on each panel, if one falls off (which it will very soon) and falls on someone they will be very lucky if they don't end up in hospital or worse! swallow your pride, take it all down and do it properly before anyone uses that bathroom again!