Cold Kitchen Floor Solution...What do you guys think?

[ripperuk]

Hi guys,

Our kitchen even though it's small (2m by 3m), is really cold due to the floor. It was originally solid concrete, but the previous owner then put on ceramic floor tiles, making it even more cold.

I plan to use cork floor tiles, stick them on using adhesive to stick to ceramic. Once the tiles are on, I plan to stick lino onto them.

Would this work? If so, what adhesive do I need to use?

Thanks for your help

[cotswold builders]

Stop walking about In bare feet, get yourself a pair of slippers


Forget the cork, lay cushion flooring, the tile joints will need filling prior to gluing the lino down, go for a look alight light oak plank effect wood.

[ripperuk]

Thanks for your prompt reply cotswold builders. Isn't cushion flooring the same as lino or vinyl? It's not only cold to walk on, but also makes the whole kitchen cold as the cold is coming from the floor.

[jg]

Are you sure the cold is through the floor, not a draught coming from behind the cupboards etc.

My kitchen floor is similar to yours, tiles on concrete. I found that there was a constant draught coming from under the cupboards which caused the floor to become very cold in winter. I took the plinths off and found that it was coming from the gap between the insulated plasterboard and the concrete floor (which would normally be covered by skirting), and also around the pipes etc coming in behind the sink.

To remedy this, I bought a can of expanding foam and filled up the gaps, it was a bit tricky trying to reach to the back under the kitchen units while lying on the floor, but I got it done and the kitchen is now much better than it was.

Also had a disused drier vent which didn't help, I cut a wooden plug for that and packed the back with expanding foam in a bag (incase I ever want to take it out)

HTH
J

[ripperuk]

Thanks for that tip jg. I'm going to have to check, although I think it's going to be very difficult to access/reach.

Anyway I still like the idea of a warmer floor and ceramic tiles don't help, so what would you suggest? What is the difference between lino and vinyl?

[Job and Knock]

I have a stone flag floor in the kitchen. Even with the usual suspects for draughts dealt with (skirting boards, doors, etc) it was still cold so I did exactly what you intend to do about 15 years ago ahving tried Cushionflor first. It works to a degree, but cork is fairly soft and can wear in high traffic areas (such as by the back door) and it does need to be well sealed to stop it getting grubby. It is also pretty awful to lift in the future should you need/want to replace it (which we did a coupe of years back - by thicker cork)

[ripperuk]

Thanks Job and Knock...so what do you suggest? Is having both a vinyl/lino and a cork floor no good? What if I used a 3.6mm plywood board, like the one here:-

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Hardwood-Plywoo ... m/p/110513

[Wes]

I personally think your idea is sound ripper...You simply want to add an insulating layer between your vinyl/lino (pretty much a similar product although vinyl is made from petroleum and lino from linseed oil - apparently. The latter being better for the environment although not as hardy as the vinyl..Very brief summary )..

One point you may wish to consider is whether your concrete slab is dry and has an effective dpm (pre 1965 properties tend not too have a dpm under original slabs). The vinyl/lino will restrict the passage of moisture from below. This means you can get a build up of moisture which may have an effect on the cork and/or adhesive you use. Whether potential issues will be noticeable or problematic is anyone's guess..Just food for thought...

You could consider the type of insulation boards used beneath electric underfloor heating. Something like this http://www.underfloorheatingworld.co.uk ... l-insulat/ but do check that the method of fixing specs and compatibility with vinyl/lino are good for your circumstances. Just an idea to add to your options.

For your reference, there are overlay click vinyl tiles out there now-a-days as well. Again just to increase your scope and ideas i.e. If your slab doesn't have a dpm and is intermittently wicking moisture, then a plastic visqueen dpm may be an option, then an underlay (1.6 mm thick), then your vinyl. Alternatively, should you prefer a glued down product - and the above applies - you'll need to look at using an adequate liquid dpm and self levelling compound..

[ripperuk]

Thank you very much for your advice Wes.

The concrete floor is pre 1965, but I'm a bit confused regarding the Damp/Moisture issue. If the cork tiles are going on the current ceramic tiles, then surely thats not directly on concrete, so do I still require a DPM?

Regarding the insulation boards.....I would like to use these, but what order would I put these onto the ceramic tiles?:-

1.
VINYL/LINO
CORK TILES
INSULATION BOARD
CERAMIC TILES

OR

2.
VINYL/LINO
INSULATION BOARD
CERAMIC TILES

[Wes]

The concrete floor is pre 1965, but I'm a bit confused regarding the Damp/Moisture issue. If the cork tiles are going on the current ceramic tiles, then surely thats not directly on concrete, so do I still require a DPM?

With ceramic tiles, any moisture from the concrete will/can naturally evaporate through the grout and into the atmosphere without issues developing. Ceramic tiles should not be considered as an effective dpm. Problems occur when an impervious materials - like vinyl - is placed on top. The impervious material impedes the passage of moisture and can create a pocket where moisture gets trapped. Some of the trapped moisture will soak back into the grout and back through to the concrete but the majority of moisture will often sit/collect on the surface of the ceramic.

Ideally, to avoid the issues stated above, the tiles should be removed.

1.
VINYL/LINO
CORK TILES
INSULATION BOARD
CERAMIC TILES

OR

2.
VINYL/LINO
INSULATION BOARD
CERAMIC TILES

My preferred method should the tiles have to stay in situ - although again, not ideal - would be to mechanically abrade the surface of the tiles, apply a coat of moisture tolerant self levelling compound (you may be able to apply a liquid dpm straight to the tiles without applying self levelling first but you'd have to check with the dpm supplier as it's not something I have ever done), apply an appropriate liquid dpm, adhere the insulation boards (if the dpm manufacturer is happy to adhere straight to the dpm), then a final layer of self levelling compound (to provide a smooth and flat surface), then finally adhere the vinyl tiles.

If you were to take a chance; out of the two methods above, I'd go with number 2. Although, I would strongly suggest that whatever method you use, you add a final layer of self levelling compound to gain a smooth and flat surface as well as an appropriate surface for the vinyl adhesive to bond to. Bare in mind, most vinyl flooring products will show deviations in the substrate through to the surface. Regardless whether the vinyl is a floating click or fully bonded product.

Remember, there may be other options available through research and perhaps a few calls to technical departments, however, the important factor here is to understand that the ceramic isn't a dpm and moisture pockets can really spoil your day Issues like this are hard to anticipate if you don't have the foresight through a lack of experience - said without meaning to be condescending

[r055c]

I had a similar problem I'm my bathroom. Sorted this straight out by taking the tiles up and putting laminate down that was suitable for bathrooms. Feels lovely and look brilliant


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[BillyGoat]

My kitchen and the old pantry were the only solid floor in this house and it has quarry tiles on. It literally used to suck the heat out the room and make it feel cold (walls and ceilings were insulated).

The kitchen we put down 9mm underlay and laminate which took about 80% of the chill factor out.

The pantry was a bit more extreme. We opened it up under the stairs to the coal bunker bit, so had different levels. Broke it all up and dug it out. Put 100mm of Celotex down and then 75mm of screed (which was badly done) and then SLC to level it up.

You can walk on that and it's cold, but not bad at all.....considering there is no heating there! I'd be happy to stick some floor on it and not have the same issues, but a bit OTT for what you want to do!

If I had to do the kitchen later, I'd dig it ALL up and put a suspended floor down, with insulation under.....but I don't seem to do things the easy way!

[ripperuk]

Thank you very much Wes and r055c.

Unfortunately removal of ceramic tiles is out of the question because of time and ahem the missus

Here is what I'm going to do:-

1. Abrade the ceramic tiles
2. Apply liquid dpm
3. Stick down the insulation boards with adhesive
4. Apply self-levelling compound
5. Stick down vinyl tiles with adhesive.

So how does that sound?

LOL! @ Billygoat....I think that is a bit too extreme for me.

PS: I've got a spare 5 litre damp proof paint...can that be used instead of liquid dpm?

[Wes]

Sounds like a plan ripper...Do your checks as to whether a liquid dpm can go straight to ceramic and all your adhesives compatibility etc. There's datasheets all over this interweb

Make sure the insulation board adhesive and slc is well dried before you install the vinyl.

Also make sure you buy insulation board that can be slc'd over. Some are essentially just an underlay.

Decent enough plan that

[ripperuk]

Cheers Wes.

Just noticed a bit of a problem. My kitchen floor is currently level with the living room floor. If I add all the mentioned things, my floor level will be at least 1cm-1.5cm higher. Any suggestions on reducing this?