Lathe headstock repairs.

[Retired]

Hi,

I've mentioned in previous threads the rare Myford MF 36 I bought and eventually found to be a heap of scrap once I got it home onto the bench. I had bought the MF through eBay paying a lot of money for it so I didn't want to scrap it after all my background is mechanical engineering so I set about repairing it. Normally when a lathe is this damaged it pays to scrap it but I like a challenge and I wanted to know if I could still do hand work to very close tolerances?

The main headstock casting had fractured across the rear of the main front bearing obviously allowing the mandrel and chuck to vibrate badly once a cut was applied. This was very bad news but all was not yet lost. I had made and installed a temporary repair this being a metal clamp secured with machine screws after firstly drilling and tapping; I measured the bearing and the overall area affected then visited Blackgates Engineering and bought two over size Meehanite (cast iron) blocks to use as blank bearing caps.

What followed was a lot of work. I used the Myford to repair itself by facing both blanks very accurately then in turn they were opened out for the bearings using a boring bar; this sounds easy but the MF was miles out regarding accuracy; once the facing had been completed I had to re-adjust the headstock to allow the boring to take place with great accuracy; I can work at home to a tenth of a thou and with masses of patience taking lots of time I produced two bearing caps machined accurately all over and with the bore to accept the half bearing.

Bron and I visited Plastics Online in Sheffield where we bought an oversize diameter of round Whale Tufnol at 6" long. I had already been in touch with Tufnol enquiring how much they would charge just for the single bearing I needed; at £150 I wasn't amused. The Tufnol cost around £20. Back home I set about turning two headstock bearings; after all I might as well do the job right first time. I had never previously turned bearings from Tufnol but I found with a lot of care and patience Tufnol is a delight to turn if somewhat dirty.

Now after many hours work I had two new bearing caps and a pair of new Tufnol bearings. I had profiled the two caps the hard way using hacksaw and files to make them appear factory items. With this done I could now remove the headstock and set about removing the top half of each bearing? This was difficult and made my arms ache again only using an hacksaw and files; I had been taught to file flat to a thou of an inch so this was a good time to use the skill. The results can be seen in the pictures using very basic hand tools. The headstock was drilled and tapped to accept machine studs and nuts for securing the caps. The new bearings were cut in half and after lots of test fitting the lot suddenly came together and I was well pleased with my efforts. Once I had turned the new bearings I took the bearings and mandrel over to Metalizers a few miles away. The mandrel was metal sprayed in hardened stainless and brought back to original specification; my new bearings were tested to be a very accurate fit. The MF was reassembled and was run on test for a couple of hours where the bearings heated up at first but with plenty of lubrication and a bit of tweaking on the adjusting nuts it settled down and shook hands with me at last. I never did like this Myford although I was offered a clone and also bought this; after spending around £400 on bed regrinds I decided whatever I did to these lathes they would still be old lathes so I sold them both through Bay losing around £1,000. I had spent many happy hours tinkering around with them and enjoyed using my old skills so didn't begrudge losing the money too much but better to quit now than sink even more money into their restorations.

A few months later I was fortunate enough to buy a very rare Lorch Schmidt precision engineering lathe at price to make up for my loss on the Myford's so I was well pleased and have subjected the Lorch to a comprehensive restoration it now being a much; much better lathe than the Myford's even when the Myford's were brand new.

I was taught at a time when apprenticeships were offered by most large companies; (early sixties) the National Coal Board was excellent in this respect and subjected me to lots of close strict training which to this day still proves so useful; I was taught to use my head and my hands and to think for myself; engineers make parts to fit whereas fitters simply fit ready made parts and between the two is a vast difference. I love making things from scratch keeping my old skills alive and would encourage anyone to have a go at impossible repairs just for the fun and interest; after all if something is broken it should with a lot of TLC only improve upon it? Just another little story whilst its snowing outside. Roll on the day I can work in comfort in the garage?

Kind regards, Col.

MF 36 original.JPG (107.49 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

New caps underway.JPG (60.58 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

One made one blank..JPG (63.04 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

All hand work.JPG (82.01 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

Ready for new bearings and caps.JPG (85.5 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

Home made caps.JPG (63.23 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

Testing for fit 3.JPG (90.41 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

New bearing and cap3.JPG (75.3 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

[Bob225]

I have used a ml/mf many times, tbh they don't make them like that anymore, spares not a problem, Myford still stock some parts, I have used a Myford guy based in Swindon for items in the past inc a casing - RDG tools are good for Myford stuff

But there's always the challenge of making the parts

Most heavy castings can be cold stitched or pre heated and tungsten-arc or plasma-arc welded

edit. rdg bought up myford's stock

[wrinx]

I've got a Myford S7 running a 3-phase motor with invertor...I really like it. It may be a bit worn and scruffy but I'm no engineer (ex-fabricator) so it meets all my general turning needs admirably.

In fact, I've just treated myself to a set of RDG quick change tools, they look really good!

I thought the new Myford and RDG were separate companies, is that incorrect?

Edit: No, you're right...both working from a similar address.

wrinx

[Chop]

Great story, Col.

Aside, the RDG tooling stuff, is it good? I have seen it online but at the prices I thought maybe they were compromised on quality somehow? Should I fill my boots?

[wrinx]

I was taught at a time when apprenticeships were offered by most large companies; (early sixties) the National Coal Board was excellent in this respect and subjected me to lots of close strict training which to this day still proves so useful; I was taught to use my head and my hands and to think for myself; engineers make parts to fit...

Forgot to add...nice job on the caps, they look excellent

wrinx

[wrinx]

Great story, Col.

Aside, the RDG tooling stuff, is it good? I have seen it online but at the prices I thought maybe they were compromised on quality somehow? Should I fill my boots?

A few years ago I read lots of bad press about some of their stuff, particularly the chucks and collet sets which had varying degrees of accuracy...but when you consider they were around 1/4-1/3rd the price of more expensive models you get what you pay for. They may have improved.

The quick change set up I've just bought looks amazing, but I've yet to test it in anger and see if it wobbles everywhere!

wrinx

[Rorschach]

RDG bought the Myford name as well as all their stock.

Great work Col!

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies and for your compliments. RDG is only about 30 minutes drive from us and Bron and I pass the site many times. I used to enjoy visiting RDG old site then they moved to a large modern industrial unit; again I enjoyed popping in because they had a large area laid out like stalls which were full of goodies; to me this was like M&S placing sweets near the checkouts. A few years ago RDG changed their layout doing away with the large open area and the last times I've visited there has been a very small reception area with a sales counter the rest is blocked from view. I believe RDG now concentrate with online sales which must make up the bulk of their business? I no longer visit unless I need something specific.

Yes RDG are now also Myford.

I buy lots of my tooling from Rufforth Auto Jumble (York) held the first Saturday of every month. A lot of the tooling is secondhand but if care is exercised then top branded names can be bought very cheaply indeed. I might see you at Rufforth Chop; bring a wad of cash then you can return home with lots of goodies and also stock up with consumables like thinners; gloves and abrasive paper etc?

There are many thousands of Myford lathes still in everyday use and for a home workshop they are ideal. As an apprentice 50 years ago I used to walk along Wood Street in Wakefield to reach the college; near the bottom of Wood Street used to be an engineers supply store and I drooled many times having stopped to admire the the brand new Myford engineering lathes on display in the windows. At that time I struggled to raise my bus fare let alone buy such a dream of a machine. eBay bristles with Myford's for sale but having been caught out so badly myself in buying my Myford without first viewing I would strongly recommend anyone buying a second-hand lathe online not to part with money up front but to take the time to inspect the lathe in person. I was taught metal turning on a new Colchester lathe which has spoiled me. I cannot remember which model Colchester it was but in the NCB training centre in Crigglestone there was a row of these Colchesters against the wall and what a wonderful sight they were to behold. I remember everything was power feed through a gearbox and on top of the headstock to the rear right was an horizontal control lever which adjusted the speed; if I was loaded with money I would certainly visit 600 lathes in Heckmondwike and place an order for a new Colchester; I know I'm sad but I'd prefer a new lathe over a new flash car anytime.

My Lorch lathe isn't fitted with a clutch which is a shame; a clutch makes a tremendous difference.

I've owned many lathes over the years and all have afforded me much pleasure; my Colchester Triumph was without doubt the best but it was simply much too large taking up a lot of space in the garage; I still miss it but I'm not stuck still having four lathes to play with.

The headstock outboard bearing housing was strengthened with a gusset but when I cut away the area for the new bearing cap to the main inboard bearing casting this left the casting vulnerable and weak so I set about adding a gusset welding it in then fettling it; once painted it looks like part of the original headstock.

Here are a few more pictures which might be of interest.

Kind regards, Col.

New Tufnol headstock bearing..JPG (98.83 KiB) Viewed 5036 times

New Tufnol bearings homemade.JPG (102.68 KiB) Viewed 5036 times

Strenghtening piece..JPG (87.47 KiB) Viewed 5036 times

Strengthening piece fettled 2.JPG (88.24 KiB) Viewed 5036 times

Repaired.JPG (133.72 KiB) Viewed 5036 times

[Bob225]

looking good, we had Harrison lathes when I was at school, they where beasts alas 5-6 years later the scrap man hauled them away - ask kids now days if they have use a lathe the answer would be no, they may of seen one in a history book tho

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks flash22. The secondary modern school I attended between 1958/1962 had a Union Jubilee lathe in the woodworking class. I always steered towards this but was never ever allowed to use it under power. I disliked woodworking because of the bullying teacher but one thing I wanted to make was a barley twist candlestick hoping I could be allowed to use the lathe. I thought these barley twists were turned on a lathe so I was in with a chance? However the teacher turned a length of timber into round then I had to cut two long strips of white paper and attach these spiral fashion around the newly turned round section; I then had to laboriously hand file the flutes. So much for my introduction to lathes. The teacher used the Jubilee for sharpening his pencil because the Jubilee was always rigged with an outboard faceplate having a large sanding disc attached.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/harrisonwood/

My Graduate woodturning lathe was introduced in 1959 and was advertised as Harrison Union Graduate. The Graduate initially manufactured by 600 lathes in Heckmondwike was later manufactured at other sites such as Multico; the story is shown in the link above.



Above shows a Graduate on YouTube; this sounds like a rough example; even the turned timber looks like its been smacked with an hammer knocking it out of round? My Graduate has recently been subjected to a comprehensive restoration and sounds very sweet indeed. 600 Lathes are still in Heckmondwike not far from where we live and we pass the company often. Our school never had engineering lathes like the Harrison. Harrison lathes are excellent lathes and would be a huge asset to any workshop.

To use a lathe in a school (Academy) these days the lathe would be fully guarded hindering its use and the lathe operator would have to at least wear a full suit of armour? Kids are no longer allowed to nick themselves or the parents are suing the school for neglect? I can't understand why the fear of lawsuits is more important than teaching kids but then we as a nation no longer have any control what we do? A drop of blood was always a good teacher; I nicked myself often enough but with correct training fortunately so far have only suffered nicks. There is far more danger these days in a home workshop where anyone can visit places like B&Q and buy over the counter a power tool or machine which without training can put the operator into A&E? Are kids allowed to play conkers in school these days?

In years to come as you say flash22 kids will only see pictures of lathes in history classes or possibly on forums such as UHM? I saw a bit of BBC news the other day where the government are aiming at ensuring all kids leave school being able to read and write? 50 years ago kids were forced to attend school and every kid in all three schools I attended eventually left school able to read and write so what has happened?

For anyone with a bit of space for a lathe go on spoil yourself and buy one it will give you lots of pleasure.

Kind regards, Col.

[Bob225]

well im not that old left school in the mid 90's but have been around cars and machinery most of my life, I have learnt a lot from the "old boys" (sadly most have passed on now) the sort of invaluable information and things that are not written in books and word that you never knew existed till they made a mistake

now days its sit at a computer draw something and let the machine do the work - I still do drawings by hand as I find it quicker

[Retired]

Brilliant work Col

I have bought quite a few Engineering tools from RDG tools via their ebay shop with no problems at all but I have never purchased chucks/collets etc.

[Rorschach]

I have a set of ER40 collets from RDG, they were very good value for money. Runout is measured at around 0.02mm for nearly all the sizes, plenty good enough for my needs. Their drill chucks seem to be ok as well, not tried the lathe chucks though.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Flash22. It's strange to think I'm now classed as one of the "old boys" but I suppose I am; in my head I'm still only a kid who likes to play with his toys although my toys these days are bigger and more powerful but still my toys. I learned a lot from my library of books over the years but its a very slow way of learning; these days if I need to find an answer or learn a new technique I find YouTube to be wonderful; a video is a much better learning tool than a book but of course a book will supply much needed data so I still use both. Many things are learnt by trial and error in fact one thing might work for one person but not another; I think the quickest way to learn anything is to jump in and make all the mistakes? I enjoy playing with "emachineshop" CAD but I'm still very much a novice with it and as you rightly say drawing by hand is still quickest; One useful benefit of CAD though is being able to lift measurements directly from drawings especially when it comes to dividing things with a lot of accuracy. In the garage I often make sketches on bits of paper or an offcut of ply etc; saves making mistakes wasting valuable material?

Many thanks Chez. I too have bought quite a few items from RDG over the years and have been satisfied with them; places like RDG need supporting because if such places die out there will be even less incentive for the younger generations to get their hands dirty? I've also bought items from Blackgates Engineering for many years but Blackgates are very expensive indeed. A couple of years ago I visited Blackgates to buy a bit of round BMS (bright mild steel) and as I returned to the car I was much lighter in my pocket thinking the money hasn't gone far at all? I did a bit of online browsing and found "K Steels" here locally in Huddersfield; I've known of this company for years but always thought they were strictly trade only; I worked not far from them at Brook Motors.

http://ksteels.co.uk/

I sent an email enquiry with a sample wish list of BMS sizes I use most often wondering if I would even receive a reply? What a lovely surprise though a quick reply and I subsequently placed an order asking them to please cut the steel into 4' lengths to fit into our then Aygo and I would collect. Absolutely no problem at all; Bron had a little trip out and we collected the steel which was ready for us. The difference between Blackgates and K Steels is that I bought around four times as much from K Steels for the same cash. The only downside is that there is a minimum order of £25? which isn't such a problem for me because at K Steel prices I can stock up rather than buy just the amount I need for a particular job. I'm not in any way knocking Blackgates because Blackgates offer a cutting service supplying small amounts and of course there is labour involved also Blackgates specialize in model engineering but each time I do visit Blackgates it brings tears to my pocket.

Thanks Rorschach; I too haven't bought lathe chucks from RDG but if I did I wouldn't be too fussy regarding dead accuracy of the chuck because I was taught never to trust chuck accuracy; as an apprentice at the training centre we were taught on four jaw independent chucks and if we wanted top accuracy then we clocked using a DTI (dial test indicator).

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dial+ ... d=0CFsQsAQ

Many novices to engineering lathes I think expect the lathe to be accurate especially the chuck as to run out; also the lathe could be expected to bore very accurate concentric holes using a drill bit in the tailstock then running through with a reamer? Doing this yes the hole would indeed be accurate but would it be accurate to the axis? Drill the hole undersize then use a boring bar to open the hole to correct size; don't even assume the carriage is running dead accurate but then all this is learnt by trial and error even in a top class training centre such as I attended at the National Coal Board; no two lathes are exactly alike so practice on your own lathe until you really get to know it. A good lathe operator can produce accurate components even on a well worn lathe but can a novice produce similar components on a top of the range accurate lathe? I always enjoy time spent on all my four lathes and I've still got a lot to learn but I'm getting there. A good example is the previous picture showing the Tufnol bearing being bored using a boring bar; this brings the bore to specification then next step is to turn a dummy mandrel to mount the new bearing on allowing the outer to be brought to spec; this ensures concentricity about the axis. Next time I turn a bush or plain bearing I'll add the sequence just for interest. I'm only discussing what techniques are used in a home workshop knowing full well these days most such machines are now computer controlled but when I was taught things were much different; computers were a thing of the future but I can turn very accurate components on my lathes without CNC and enjoy doing so to keep my hand in using the skills I was taught.

I'm grounded for a while because Bron is ill in bed with the bug which is doing the rounds; I feel lost without Bron pottering around fussing over me and all the wildlife and birds which visit us now it's my turn to really fuss over Bron and look after her; she's my best friend. The coffered ceiling and wainscoting is on hold and its much too cold to be playing out; roll on summer?

Kind regards, Col.

[ultimatehandyman]

We used to have a K steels in Darwen, but sadly it closed down.

I used to like going there because you could walk in and get the lads on the guillotine's to cut the metal to your required shape (often from scrap off cuts)