Wanting joinery advice on how best to beef up this shed!!

Wood working questions and answers in here please

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darkhorse
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Wanting joinery advice on how best to beef up this shed!!

Post by darkhorse »

Hi guys. First post in this forum and may I say what a good forum it looks too.....

Anyway, ive also posted this on another forum but had naff all input so I went searching for some help elsewhere!

I am after suggestions on how you would beef up and insulate this shed please...

It is to be used as a small workshop/engine building den and as a result I need it to be pretty dry and warm would be a bonus. The base is treated 2x3s wrapped in a DPM and outside that is a wrap of quality roofing felt to protect the DPM. Its insulated with fibreglass loft insulation. The floor is a bit overkill because their will be a fair weight with an engine in there (250kg ~) 22mm chipboard (treated) and then 12mm exterior ply (treated).
The shed is only 8ft by 6 ft due to space constraints (Waltons pre bought jobbie) and resultantly I am planning on beefing the internal structure up a bit at the same time as insulating it.

My current plan bearing in mind space is limited is to use some 2 x2 around the sides running in parallel with the current 'supports' to give me a 75mm cavity space and 2x3s under the roof as there is currently no support there!
I have a few ideas about re-enforcing the current roof support bar (maybe run 3x2s down each side of it supported by a 3x2 either side of the current gable supports?)
Then use 50mm kingspan in the cavity and board over it with 10mm ply. (do I need to use a vapour barrier against the shed wall, then kingspan, then ply?) Pics show what Ive got to work with! (I know a custom shed would have been better but I havent got time at the moment and need this workspace asap!)

The base pre DPM /insulation and felt

Image

Inside
Image
roof
Image
windows (OSB? is leaning on the shed outside, not part of it!)
Image
wall
Image


Your experience and ideas are appreciated :):

Thanks
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Post by big-all »

heeelllooo darkhorse and welcome have some comments but no time now will post pm
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Post by darkhorse »

big-all wrote:heeelllooo darkhorse and welcome have some comments but no time now will post pm
Hi Big All :-)
All suggestions appreciated! :scratch:
thanks
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Post by big-all »

was look ing at your thread on s/fix

first comment you realy would be better off without the plastic and a brick every 350mm topped with a bit of roofing felt/damp proof course/thick black plastic :wink: anything to give you a damp proof barrier then your frame sitting on this idealy with the sides low enough to shed water away from the base this setup will allow any moisture to escape

the way you have it with the frame on the ground coverd in plastic the frame cant breath indeed if any water finds its way inside the plastic it has no escape route so will rot the wood that much quicker :cb

on the insulation front i am having a simmilar dilema with my shed

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/ ... hop004.jpg

what i am planning on doing is giving the outside 3 good coats of preservative[it has already been pressure treated]
and using 50mm loft insulation[woodworks 3x2" sawn] and trusting to fate wether or not the any damp that gets in wont find its own way out through the 6 or 9mm ply i intend to line the ceiling and walls with :scratch: :scratch:
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Post by Wood Magnet »

:welcome: Darkhorse, as big-all has suggested lift the shed up, i've just recently had to do mine because my garden has started to flood when it rains ::b (damn clay) i used breeze blocks (re-cycled of course). As to the insulation, the reccomended way is what you said i believe, but in all honesty i think it's overkill, as long as you give the outside plenty preservative (like big-all) and you have no gaps then just use loft insulation/rockwool type stuff, personally i'm just about to use laminate flooring underlay (the stuff on a roll from b&q (re-cycled of course) for my shed/workshop which looks exactly like yours (b&q). Anyway good luck with whichever way you go and send us some pictures of the way you do it please. Oh! and the re-enforcing sounds good to me :thumbright:
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Post by darkhorse »

Thanks for the input guys :wink:

Big All - I was originally thinking about putting it on some slabs and for some reason listened to the advice of others and just built a beefy wooden frame base :cb

Having said that, its in a very dry area (on an old patio with gapped slabs and great drainage so i hope that this wont become a problem. But if it does I will relocate it on to slabs ASAP!
having said that though I will have made a custom one within a few years and I didnt wrap the base entirely in DPM, only the underside and then stapled on to the top of the outer framing so it can still breathe ... (I hope :-) )

Also, I have sat it on a large felt bed to protect the DPM so I will update to how it gets along now ive found this forum.


Your insulation plans sounds identical to mine! Ive binned off the kingspan idea due to cost and am going to use some rockwool I have spare. I think 5mm ply will be more than enough but as someone advised Im going to put a vent in the end of the shed (in the main compartment) IF I get it airtight enough to warrant it at some point!

Wood Magnet.
Thanks for the input and info ;)

I agree with you on the insulation and am now going to use a few rolls I have spare in the loft (that kingspan is darned expensive for a shed!)

I will definately update you with pictures and let you know how Ive done it in the end :-)

I think Im going to do a 'wait and see' on raising the base as its a good dry spot where its located with no flood risk (or no running water even) but if it ever does rot I will have gone custom by then!! (unlikley for a while tho as its pressure treated and then I double treated it)
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Post by big-all »

the problem is likly to be if water gets into the plastic it cant run away !!!

if the water runs down the side of the shed and finds its way over the top off the plastic it will get stuck there!!

is there any gap between the shed base and the plastic coverd framework!!!
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Post by darkhorse »

big-all wrote:the problem is likly to be if water gets into the plastic it cant run away !!!

if the water runs down the side of the shed and finds its way over the top off the plastic it will get stuck there!!

is there any gap between the shed base and the plastic coverd framework!!!
hi big all
Heres a pic of the shed as it is
The blue bin is there as a door blocker because one of the doors is badly warped :roll: and Waltons are sending a new pair out!!

I would (and will if need be) make a custom pair but I wanted to make them send a new pair that fit properly seeing as I paid for them!

Image

Slightly off topic but was anyone awake for teh earthquake??
I was and I could see my house wall actually shaking :cb
not good

Anyway, no, theres no gap but theres no way for water to get in there either.
The base is sealed and sat on a thick bed of felt.
Sadly I had to build the base so the shed fitted as opposed to a custom shed which would have been nicer.

On top of the base is 22mm treated chipboard.
Then the shed perches on the top.
it is not hermetically sealed so I imagine some air must find its way in?!

(Im thinking of adding felt around the sides of the base to protect the DPM?)

but at the end of the day it will be a right PITA to dismantle it and I need it as low down as possible to get engines in and out!! (250kg!)
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Post by big-all »

if you can get some dpm and tuck it into the groove or behind the lip at the very bottom then any water that runs down the side will be directed to the ground :thumbright:

surprised that john d or jasonb havent mentioned the fact you have wood on the ground!!! :wink:

nice looking shed :thumbright: although i would be tempted to replace the apex plastic with doors :wink:

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/ ... hop002.jpg

how much did your shed cost if you dont mind me asking!!

made mines 10x12ft for about £1000 including the insulation when i get it done :thumbright: that includes the electrics [pre part p january 2004 alegidly] :wink:
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Post by darkhorse »

big-all wrote:if you can get some dpm and tuck it into the groove or behind the lip at the very bottom then any water that runs down the side will be directed to the ground :thumbright:

surprised that john d or jasonb havent mentioned the fact you have wood on the ground!!! :wink:

nice looking shed :thumbright: although i would be tempted to replace the apex plastic with doors :wink:

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/ ... hop002.jpg

how much did your shed cost if you dont mind me asking!!

made mines 10x12ft for about £1000 including the insulation when i get it done :thumbright: that includes the electrics [pre part p january 2004 alegidly] :wink:
Cheers Big All :thumbright:

Well, the main comments I got on the 'other' forum were to use timber spaced at various centres or paving slabs underneath.

This was the course of action I was going to take but unfortuntely the base that came with the shed was totally useless for anything weighing more than 2 stone so I had to come up with a custom base that would work with the shed and enable me to bolt the shed to it rather than balance it as it would have been with sleepers or fence posts with gaps at the ends.

Also, as mentioned a primary concern was the height of the shed entrance because I didnt want it so high I couldnt make a useful ramp to get heavy things in and out.
2x4s and then my custom base on top would have been just too high

I suppose I couldd raise it onto slabs if need be but I think its got many years as is and considering I will have probably moved house in the next 3 or 4 years, it should hopefully be ok ;)
At the end of the day it will only be a problem if the DPM gets pierced underneath the shed....which is highly unlikely I think unless I get a rat infestation.
i think I will do as you suggest and make a DPM or felt 'skirt' around the base to provide rainwater runoff.

i will post some more pics later on of it!

I agree re the top hatch in the apex. Could be useful that one.

The shed cost £239 including a tub of wood stain!! (8 x 6)
However I have spent about another £100 on timber for the base, chipboard floor, and then 12mm exterior ply floor on top of that!!!

Im buying some more timber today to re inforce it and create a cavity.
I think 2x3s will make it too small so Im getting creative on that front! (and its not structural as the structure is 'nearly' in place!

WIll update later on
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Post by big-all »

i am shure you will be fine and any dammage/rot will be minimal then when you move you can replace any decay if any and raise it off the ground by an inch or so :thumbright:
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Post by Wood Magnet »

Looks like you've done a good job d.h., my shed looks exactly the same

Image

This is an old picture before i raised it up.
Got mine for £40+£20 delivery :lol:
B&Q made a mistake. :wink:
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Post by Teabag »

Wood Magnet
please tell me you have used "theif proof" fixings in those hinges....
would hate to see all those locks... then some numpty undoes the hinges...

this isnt being sarcastic... but why dont you guys make a shiplap shutter to secure those windows, then they would just look like a solid sided sheds, it could be removed some how, if you need light in there...
(Wood Magnet) all those locks means ur concerned, which means the window becomes next entrance...

just an idea....
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Post by Wood Magnet »

That is an old piccy T-bag, taken before it was burgled :angryfire: ::b
The hinges are bolted not screwed and I'm now busy with the windows. At the moment the shed is empty as I'm making benches etc. to use as a dedicated workshop. You can just make out the alarm siren on the nearest top corner. When it was robbed they got in by pulling the bottom of the left hand door and squeezing in, they then pried off the boards at the far end to get some of the gear out, the other stuff must have came out through the gap in the door, I've since reinforced the door and added more alarm sensors around the doors. :thumbright:
I've also screwed all the planks and i'm insulating the inside then adding plywood(when i can find some for free) lining:lol: I have got loads of spruce planks but they are to wet/damp at the moment to use for the lining. :cb
Thanks for the post anyway mate, it might help others who read the forum and have'nt thought about security. :thumbright:
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Post by darkhorse »

Bloody hell :cb

The server crashed repeatedly when I tried to save my last post and I lost it!!!

aaagghhh

ok. In brief. Wood magnet. nice job there old son :)

I will indeed post more piccies at the end of today as I have started the stud framing inside and 'hope' to get it finished this afternoon if I can get time.

I have dropped another £80 in timber for the frame today :cb

and realistically I think this will have cost north of £500 by the time its done with insulation and ply covering.
and that doesnt include electrical kit that the 'waltons villa' is going to need :lol:

I still cant believe how much this is costing me for a bloomin shed!!

Hopefully it will be worth it when I get alll my tools in there and some engines to build

Security wise its intersting to hear how the scummy thieves robbed yours WM (sorry to hear this btw)
i, going to make this as bullet proof as possible and it will on the house alarm system so I will have done all I can.

plus...if they can lug off a 250kilo engine and not get caught by our nosey neighbours they deserve it :lol:
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