Ff holesaw

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:16 pm

thescruff wrote:What are they like on work surface materials, Formica for example.

I believe they are designed for use on work tops as Shaun specializes in Kitchen fitters tools.

The quality of the hole was much better than that made by the traditional hole saw.

KK · Post by KK » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:13 am

ultimatehandyman wrote:
speed wrote:cuts alot better, having the gaps for sawdust helps,

can you sharpen the teeth like a circular saw?
I would imagine so, but KK will probably answer when he logs on as he will know for certain.

Hiya Guys , blown away with the vid. Chez ....had me belly laughing ..but I guess Im a little biased ...many Thanks.

I had these manufactured last year to a set of cad drawings . This hole saw is one of 2 variants , the other one is a light weight version , optimised for wood and man make boards , this particular one is rated for 10 mm stainless steel and will even go through ceramic tile .

Yes you can sharpen and even replace teeth ...The FF Holesaw is seen as an investment not a throw away .

I ve done the 52 mm size because a lot of guys in the kitchen game use this size for everything ...its does waste pipes , its the smallest size you can get a three pin plug through ....fair point though ..I need to do the other sizes ...to this end Ive got a 32 mm prototype ...not 25 mm as I told Chez /mispoke :) , the 32 mm is for tap holes in resin sinks , iso valves etc ...I used it in a 28 volt Milwaukee Drill and ..in fact Ive been using it for 6 months and Im happy for Chez to try it on 40 mm laminate worktop ...its amazing !

One key aspect of the Holesaw is the full length slots ? , it means that extracting the plug is childs play with a set of water pump pliers .If you re looking at the video , this will make sense as you look at the holesaw .

I don't want to abuse Chez's hospitality by prattling on about Fitters World ...so Ill just say this ...All my tools , are manufactured just for me , to the specs I supply , those specs are influenced by Forum Members and their needs . The FF Holesaw is a bit pricey at £20 , but will outlast 12 bosch ones ...and suddenly its cheap ?

The downside ! a full range of sizes will be available in time , at the moment Im finialising my saw blade range and thats where the money is being spent . So , I would say shout out , what sizes do you want and what for ?

KK

royaloakcarpentry · Post by **royaloakcarpentry** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:17 am

here is where you will get bombarded......cos floor fitters will want 25mm plumbers will want various sizes up to 115mm lol

I use hole saws by Morse and my set covers right up to 100mm plus. have also used them to go through external walls on timber framed. Went through the ply, mesh and render with ease.

thescruff · Post by **thescruff** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:36 am

32mm is miles too big for 1/2" taps KK, it would need to be 25-28mm max.

A 35mm size for 11/4" (32mm) waste pipe would be good, as 32mm is too small.

Ideal plumbing sizes would be 20mm, 25mm, 30mm, 35mm, 45mm and 52mm.

speed · Post by **speed** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:22 pm

next size should be 20mm or whatever for pipes

KK · Post by KK » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:22 am

This is where it gets a bit opinionated ? I guess , I was working on the assumption , below 32 mm you would go for a speed drill ? above 80 or 90 mm you d have to look again at the torque required ...part of the reason I designed the FF holesaw was new battery technology /more powerful tools being available ? I suppose the ideal scenario would be to stock 20 to 100 in 5 mm steps ? The 32 mm for taps was for mono block sink taps but I take your point about 1/2 " ..........Anyone fancy coming on board with 5 or 6 K to throw at stock ? :) The Flipside is that the tungsten teeth can be replaced with diamond tips to keep the Tilers happy .

thescruff · Post by **thescruff** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:27 am

Once you get above 52mm it becomes more selective KK, and you could add sizes to meet the demand.

80mm for anything 3"/75mm and 112mm for soil pipes and some flues.

20mm is the norm for 15mm copper and 1/2" steel, 25mm for 22mm and 3/4" steel, 30mm for 28mm copper, 35mm for 1" steel, 32mm copper and 11/4" waste pipe, 45mm for 11/2" steel and plastic, 52 for 2" steel and plastic.

Hitch · Post by **Hitch** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:17 pm

They look quite similar to one i use at work sometimes, made by Armeg.
http://www.armeg.com/metal-cutting-carb ... asp#movies

Designed for metal drilling, cant say i have ever tried them on anything else.

KK, will them ones do metals?

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:27 pm

Hitch wrote:They look quite similar to one i use at work sometimes, made by Armeg.
http://www.armeg.com/metal-cutting-carb ... asp#movies

Designed for metal drilling, cant say i have ever tried them on anything else.

KK, will them ones do metals?

He posted this earlier Hitch-

this particular one is rated for 10 mm stainless steel and will even go through ceramic tile

I can imagine the armeg ones being expensive?

darrenba · Post by **darrenba** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:14 pm

I'm tempted to get one of these, that video is very impressive.

Bosch also do TCT holesaws but again more expensive than this one

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/39755/Dri ... lesaw-50mm

Hitch · Post by **Hitch** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:04 pm

I missed that bit about using them on metal...

The armeg ones are not cheap, about £30+ a go i think, not 100% certain as i havn't bought them myself.

KK · Post by KK » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:31 pm

Hitch wrote:I missed that bit about using them on metal...

The armeg ones are not cheap, about £30+ a go i think, not 100% certain as i havn't bought them myself.

Ive looked at the armeg ones and they are for sheet metal /dept of cut is about 16 mm on the bigs ones , similiar body construction though , the bosch tungsten tipped ones are ...this is going to sound biased /so take it with a pinch ..crap in my opinion , they are tungsten , however they re neither fast nor accurate ...the quality of cut is abysmal on mfc type materials .but then they re supposed to be a "cut anything solution" ...one of the reasons to go for a dedicated arbor /rather than a quick change version , was to elimate play and achieve the kind of finish seen in Chez' vid . ...the slots cut in the side of the FF holesaw are to facilitate plug removal , something thats a problem even with the quick change type chucks ....how many times have you used a screwdriver to lever the plug out ? ...so ..I would say , Ive looked to achieve a tool thats easy to live with , accurate , durable , easy extraction .....or if you like , do a time and motion study on 6 holes , cut one after the other ....its not just the cutting anymore , its the turn around time to prep for the next one .and the next one . In terms of sizes , its possible , Im lead to believe by my manufacturer to do sizes in 5 mm steps ..and subsquently achieve 1 mm steps by offsetting the teeth within that 5 mm increment ?? ..each holesaw having its own arbor and pilot drill offers the possibility of spare parts , pilot drills etc ...remember as you get the holesaw sharpened /so too can you have the pilot drill sharpened ...this is an attitude Ive adopted in defiance if you like of current manufacturing ethos ....where they would like you to buy accessories /spare parts ...they want bits to wear out faster .

I believe thats its possible to achieve multi purpose ...as is achieved by the FF holesaw ..and not compromise the quality required by the Tradesman , if you look closer at the teeth on the FF , you ll see they are lapped /the sharp point is missing ? in cutting mfc , mdf or chipboard this slows it down and makes it more manageable/slower and requiring less torque , in cutting stainless steel /it stops teeth breaking and gives you a longer service life /the armeg is armed with quite aggressive sharp teeth ? which works on mild steel and even I believe cast iron /...the idea of using the teeth to dictate size /ie by offsetting them also carries through to plug extraction .....typically you would offset 4 teeth , 2 inside /2 outside ,to achieve the desired finished diameter of cut /because the teeth are also offset inside (to clear the body) plug extraction is them easier because /once the plug has cleared the tungsten teeth its got clearance ? and happily rattles around on the pilot drill making it easier to flick out ......sorry /yes im an anorak :( Ill shut up now .
kk

KK · Post by KK » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:38 pm

thescruff wrote:Once you get above 52mm it becomes more selective KK, and you could add sizes to meet the demand.

80mm for anything 3"/75mm and 112mm for soil pipes and some flues.

20mm is the norm for 15mm copper and 1/2" steel, 25mm for 22mm and 3/4" steel, 30mm for 28mm copper, 35mm for 1" steel, 32mm copper and 11/4" waste pipe, 45mm for 11/2" steel and plastic, 52 for 2" steel and plastic.

cheers for that Scruff /gives me a bit of clarity when i look at my next order :)

thescruff · Post by **thescruff** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:47 pm

Incidentally 20mm and 25mm are electrical sizes as well I think.

sparkydude · Post by **sparkydude** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:11 am

Yes your right scruff, the electrical sizes most commonly used are

16mm 20mm,25mm,32mm,38mm 40mm and 51mm , the bigger ones we normally use for downlights and smoke detectors are usually 64mm and 70mm

the most useful sizes for a trial effort would be 20 and 25mm as they get the most general abuse i would say .

Look forward to trying them out wen they get to market.

Nick