Laminate butt worktop trim

[Blue Mermaid]

Ohhhhhh, you mean the units that were pulled forward leaving a space behind that caused us all the problems with the worktops? Yes, that's an outside wall there.

[Razor]

The correct procedure, is for the RGI to say the ventilation isn't to current standards and request permission to turn it off, if however your Dad refuses, he will/should contact the gas utility supplier and they will cut the meter off, whether your Dad likes it or not.

I should say it's an offense and if anything goes wrong the RGI serves time in an HMS hotel.

Less than 90% is now At Risk Scruff

[Blue Mermaid]

Hi Guys

Just popping back with my latest moans and groans

Although I was initially pleased with the new worktops, I keep looking at the large overhang now, thinking it doesn't look right and feeling disappointed again. At first I thought that looked good, because I thought the old ones looked a bit tight, with hardly any overhang.

When the Wickes Installation Manager came over that time, the new worktops were on and he commented on the large overhang and said "I'm not saying it's wrong though". I don't know if that's what started me off looking at it.

Now, every kitchen picture I see online or on the tv, I look at the overhang of the worktops and none of them ever have a large overhang like ours!

I've just measured it and it measures 2.9cm along the longest run of worktop (but 2.3cm at the end of that run) and 2.3cm along the run where the sink is

What should the overhang be? Is it larger than usual because these worktops are really for breakfast bars? He could have just cut more off though couldn't he?

Also, why isn't the overhang even all round. Is that because of the problem with the walls not being square?

I even think the dark worktops looked better with the oak now! Obviously, not the way they were fitted but just for the design.

The kitchen still isn't finished. The builders came back to fit the decorative end panels and the rest of the pelmet. I'm really pleased we've got the decorative end panels now. Make the cupboards look much better quality - more solid looking. Here comes another moan though! We've had 2 base ones fitted too and one of them looks great but the other one not so good. On the left hand part of the frame and most of the right hand part, the oak looks like a light beech shade and the rest of the frame and the veneered middle part are all the same colour as the rest of the oak in the kitchen. The light parts are a real contrast to the rest of the panel and don't look good to me at all and from the front of the cupboards, you can really see the light part contrasting the darker shade of the cupboard doors. I know you're always going to get different shades of colour in the wood and that is part of a solid wood kitchen's natural beauty but not glaringly obvious differences like on that panel.

We have 2 base decorative panels left over, as Wickes sent too many. I've checked those and they're fine, so I wish the builders had done the same and fitted one of those instead. They might have known (knowing how fussy I am, or am I just normal?), that I wouldn't like the look of that panel. I wish they would show me before they fit things like that. Also, in their usual unskilled style, the piece of wood they've fitted to fill the space we had between the cupboard and the wall, is badly cut and looks like an amateur did it.

So now, when they come back again, I'm going to have to ask them to take off that panel and put one of the nicer ones, which I feel really awkward about, as I'm always getting them to do things again. According to them they've fitted the panels for free, (because they'd already fitted the plain ones before), so might ask me to pay them extra if I get them to take that one off and fit a new one! I don't know if I dare tell them I don't like the way they've cut that piece of wood to fill the gap either!

My mum was disappointed that the under cupboard lights weren't as light as our old ones and when I looked, I noticed they'd put a light under every cupboard but only put 2 under that long run of cupboards. When they were here, I said we wanted some more and that we wanted them under each cupboard. They said they had one left over from before but would have to buy some more from Wickes if we wanted them but were saying something about overloading our system or something (can't remember the exact words as I don't do diy speak!). I think they said we could have 2 more but not 3 more. Don't believe that.

Obviously, we wouldn't put one under the false cupboard which has the box built round the pipe there, so that leaves 3 cupboards, including the little cupboard underneath the beam. I really want them underneath the middle of each cupboard. One of the builders said they might not be able to move them to the middle, as they might not reach that far? Is he talking about the wires? They're in the middle of every other cupboard except for those. I don't know why they only put 2 under the longest run of cupboards and put them under every other cupboard but those. Is it possible to fit another 3 under there or should we forget that little cupboard under the beam? You can see the position they've put them in, in pic 0301. As you can see, they're not underneath the middle of the cupboard doors. Maybe we should stick to those positions but put 2 more? One inbetween those 2 and one to the left of the left-hand one?

They were going to come back and finish everything off once the tiler has finished (haven't decided on a tiler yet. My mum has had one over here to look so far) but then I realised the lights should be done before he starts because of the wiring. They said the new sockets and switches we're having (brushed steel ones) should be fitted after the tiling has been done. Don't think they will be happy coming back twice (they're on another job now - refurbishment of a house - hope they're making a better job of it than they did here!).

Really fed up with it all and feel disappointed looking at everthing that isn't right (have also noticed the corner cupboards have been fitted lower than all the rest, unless the lower ceiling they fitted isn't level!). My mum said the tiler that came over said there was a bigger gap under some of the cupboards than others but he said maybe the floor wasn't level.

I wish I was rich and I could have the whole thing ripped out and could start it all over again. Can't help feeling disappointed with it all. I know there are people starving in the world and all sorts of other life and death problems, (we ourselves have much more serious problems what with my parents health and everything) but I was so excited at the beginning and it all got spoiled.

Just hope we find a good tiler and flooring fitter! Still not sure about the 4 shades of tiles but my parents still want all of them. I think it might look too busy but then again, I always do play it safe with colour etc.

Okay, well done if you've read this far without falling asleep! Moan over for now!...

[speed]

wow big post, i dont have time to read it all atm but howdens usually have a 3cm (30mm) overhang on there units

[Blue Mermaid]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your reply Speed. I'll post about that another time.

For now, I need some advice about those damn builders. There's still quite a few things that need finishing and they've now got the attitude where they're saying they can only come over tomorrow and then that's it. That means what we still need doing they will refuse to do. We all know why and that's because they know my dad won't pay them for the work. There's still £500 of their last bill outstanding which my dad said he would pay them the next time they came over. According to them though, anything they do now they are doing for free and are not prepared to do that.

They owe us big time for all the horrendous mistakes. As you know, we had to fork out for brand new worktops and pay someone else to fit them. The builders were supposed to be paying for one of them but they haven't. Countless other mistakes were made as you know, plus their diy type workmanship. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt before and blaming the designer at Wickes, even though you told me it's the fitters job to check everything before they actually start fitting any of the cupboards etc. Now they're refusing the finish the job, I am no longer giving them the benefit of the doubt and I think tomorrow I will be pointing out to them all the mistakes they made, the fact we've paid for them all (£11,000 to fit a kitchen!) and if anything, they owe *us* money in compensation.

I did contact Consumer Direct when everything started going wrong about a month ago and they said the procedure was to present both the builders and Wickes with a letter of complaint and asking whether each of them took responsibility. If they said no, they didn't, Trading Standards would then have taken it further. They told me to quote an act, which I'm going to look and remind myself of in a moment. It was made in the 1980's and says when services are given, they have to be given with due care and skill.

I didn't go down that route but I still could if the builders walk off the job.

At least we've learned our lesson. We've had 2 quotes from Tilers. The first was £500 for labour, (he turned out to be another all rounder builder type!) and the one today was £200 (a professional tiler who does just that and nothing else)!

They really have got off lightly as far as I'm concerned and how dare they now say they can't keep coming back here etc before they've finished the job! I'm fuming!

I wish I knew what would have been a fair price for fitting that kitchen, so I could quote that to them.

[Blue Mermaid]

Look at this decorative panel they put on the last time they were here! There were 2 others to choose from, which are evenly stained and they put this one on! Did they ask us before they put it on? No, of course not and then they don't like it when we ask them to change it for one of the others and say they're all like that! Ummmm, no they're not!

It was the same with so many things. Fitting things that were so obviously wrong without asking us what to do (not that they should need to if they were professionals!). I wish I had a picture to show you of the integrated freezer cupboard door they fitted, which looked absolutely stupid! Went right up to the ceiling, then the decorative panel at the side was about a foot lower than it! Wickes customer services had insisted it was the right one, so they fitted it! Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it! All it took was one look at the diagram and I spotted which diagram Wickes should have been looking at, which gave the correct measurements for the doors. Boom boom, done, correct door then sent from Wickes!

How stupid can these builders get or more likely, they know full well what they're doing and think we won't notice! Then they complain when we do and ask them to put it right! Grrrrrrrrr!

[Blue Mermaid]

Look at the mess they made of the piece of wood they put in to fill the gap between it and the wall as well. Also, don't know if you can see the top of it but it does a sudden curve in there. Way out of line with the rest of it and not against the wall either. Anything they cut they don't cut square and as you've seen, they never smooth anything and just leave rough edges. More grrrrrrrs!

[Blue Mermaid]

PS You can just see how much the new worktop overhangs the cupboards in that last pic. It overhangs even more further along. Haven't seen any others overhang so much in pics I've seen. I've got some more of my own pics to show you the overhang but I'll post them another day. At least other than that the fitting of the worktops is perfect.

[lockie]

Whats the problem with the end piece of wood, isnt that wall going to get tiled anyway ? I dont get the problem with the overhangs, our last kitchen was like that and deliberately for a reason.If you spill anything on it it doesnt run straight down the fronts of the cupboards,no big deal having an overhang.

If that end panel is solid oak a quick wipe with some oil will change the colour of the mismatching piece if it isnt sealed/spray finished etc.

[Blue Mermaid]

I don't see how tiling under the top cupboard is going to conceal the bad workmanship of that piece of wood. I suggest you read the beginning of my post about the original worktops and all the pages of replies I got here informing me of the bad workmanship of these builders (I had comments such as it looks like a beaver has done the cutting and that what we've got here is not the professional job that we've paid for but a diy job). I get the impression from your reply here and to my other post, that you don't know what we've been going through with these builders.

The end panel is sealed, so a wipe with some oil would make no difference. We have 2 other perfectly fine end panels that the builders could have fitted but they chose to fit that one.

As for the overhang, thanks, that's reassuring but I still have never seen such a large overhang. I have a pic that shows it clearly. Will get round to posting that sometime.

[kusharoosh]

very very poor at best, i would not accept any of these ''joins'' , as for the jointing strip! pffffftt .............. put these builders straight!

[Blue Mermaid]

Thankfully, Kusharoosh, those worktops were taken off and dumped a few weeks ago. We bought new ones and got someone else to fit them who did a good job (you can see pictures of those somewhere in this post - not sure what page!). Guess who footed the bill for them and the fitting? Not the builders!

[Simon Site Manager]

Hi Mermaid,

You should withold any money you owe them and get them to pay for the shoddy work to your worktops. It is acceptable, if you gave them the chance to rectify, to get another contractor in to put right their work, and you have the photographic eveidence!


S

[lockie]

I don't see how tiling under the top cupboard is going to conceal the bad workmanship of that piece of wood. I suggest you read the beginning of my post about the original worktops and all the pages of replies I got here informing me of the bad workmanship of these builders (I had comments such as it looks like a beaver has done the cutting and that what we've got here is not the professional job that we've paid for but a diy job). I get the impression from your reply here and to my other post, that you don't know what we've been going through with these builders.

The end panel is sealed, so a wipe with some oil would make no difference. We have 2 other perfectly fine end panels that the builders could have fitted but they chose to fit that one.

As for the overhang, thanks, that's reassuring but I still have never seen such a large overhang. I have a pic that shows it clearly. Will get round to posting that sometime.

Ok so i didnt quite get the jist of the endless pages of this post and thought the wall was getting tiled down the side by the panel thus concealing the edge of the strip, i'll shut up now.

[Blue Mermaid]

Thanks Simon. Unfortunately, we have no way of getting hold of the builders, as they've walked off the job and are not answering our calls. We don't even know their address. If my dad had been behind me at the time, we could have done what you suggest. Also, when it became apparent that they couldn't rectify the situation, we could have asked them to leave and got in somebody who knew what they were doing to finish the whole kitchen. Unfortunately though, my dad couldn't see that I was right about them at the time. He regrets it now.

We have finally got it finished though. I got in the guy who first advised the builders what to do about the worktops when it was all going wrong. His company have finished the rest of the fitting of the kitchen and corrected a lot of mistakes (some of which I didn't even know about). So, there's just the tiling and the flooring to do now.

The subject of taking them to court and other ways to try and get some money back have been discussed and my dad doesn't want to do any of them. He's unwell and has 2 operations coming up. My mother is also unwell and I have a long term health problem too. Together with all the stress that has gone on for months now with the kitchen, my dad just wants it finished and the house cleaned and tidied as much as possible.

Lockie, I apologise for the "endless pages" of this post but they represent the amount of problems we've been having!