Which welder?

[Dave54]

Too much water in the air without. Makes it hard on air tools, and wet air isn't good from the blow gun, or for spraying etc.

What about oxy-propane? Less money to set up for occasional cutting use than plasma. Can be used for brazing, and of course a bit of heat for freeing stuff, bending steel, etc. I was talking to the bloke where I got my Mig welding bottle from. He sells the bottles and refills them as needed. Same with oxygen if you want it. Bit expensive to set up for the occasional use I'd give it I reckon though.

[Argyll]

Quite fancy this. What do you think?

https://www.gumtree.com/p/welding-equip ... 1185965280

[Retired]

Hi,

If I wanted an arc welder I'd buy this one Argyll; my arc welder is a SIP 140A and must be at least twenty years old serving me faithfully and paying for itself many times over; mine has been used a lot and yesterday I was welding 1/2" thick steel with it in fact I'll post a picture later. For a home workshop one of these welders will earn its keep and not being electronic there is little to go wrong; I fancy an inverter welder but looking at my welds yesterday my old SIP still performs well.

For general welding 2013 rods at 2.5mm cover most jobs but both thinner and thicker rods are readily available; I have some thin rods but forget the last time I used them; with practice welding isn't difficult at all. I would highly recommend a number 10 shade welding glass; the welding mask supplied with the SIP is much too dark and at times it's caused me problems in seeing what I'm welding; I bought a #10 glass and tried it for the first time yesterday and what a tremendous difference it makes.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181076250649? ... EBIDX%3AIT

I bought two of these lens and one was broken upon arrival. A couple of years ago I bought an automatic welding helmet but again the lens in this are rather too dark and it being automatic I'm sure I can't simply replace the lens but I'll do a bit of research on this when I get a bit of time.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-05572- ... SwKfVXI1ok

A quick eBay check is shown above of a Draper 140A welder so looking at this the price of the one on Gumtree is very fair assuming it is still for sale. If you buy the Gumtree welder Argyll I'm sure you'll be pleased with it; you'll also quickly pick up how to weld with a bit of practice on scrap metal; there are plenty of YouTube videos to guide you as well.

I've been welding for over 50 years and with my own arc welder at home I've welded as thin as rusty exhausts but as I say it takes practice.

What do I think? I'd say buy the welder; it will be money well spent and if you do decide to upgrade at a later date to an inverter welder this Gumtree welder will have been worth the money just to gain welding experience with. Good luck.

Kind regards, Col.

[Retired]

Hi,

The pictures below show a bit of welding I've done today; the steel is 1/2" thick and I used my SIP 140A arc welder with 6013 2.5mm rods at 100A. The welding was done with me crouching down on the garage floor trying to keep my balance; I really should make a proper welding table but it's a job I never seem to get round to doing; I don't weld on the wooden benches because of the mess it makes and I don't weld in the big vice so once again I've been welding on the garage floor.

The item I've made is a "dog's leg" bracket for our neighbour's wrought iron fence; having a welder is so useful and a job like this costs very little indeed it being made from offcuts; the steel is from our old up and over garage door and all cutting was done using my trusty hacksaw. Owning an arc welder opens up an whole new world to explore; these are not the best welds but certainly good enough for this application. I clamped the parts to be welded onto a length of angle iron to align them. The angle grinder tidied the weld where it will be flush to the wall. It's also time I did something about cutting metal because using the hacksaw today was hard work in hot weather.

Hopefully Argyll once you buy a welder you'll be doing similar work and enjoying it.

Kind regards, Col.

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[Grumps]

I noticed earlier there was mention of a Plasma Cutter. Today I took note of what our lot use (for restoring Heritage Railway carriages) and it is the Drag Gun. Not sure if there are different models or, if there are, which model we use.

http://www.weldmet.co.uk/shop/productin ... &cc=global



In fact, we have two of them.

Single Phase and no need for separate air, as it has its own compressor.

The specs say good for 12mm but I've seen it struggle at 6mm. Anything over 4mm we tend to use either a band saw or, for convenience with small jobs, a cutting disc in an angle grinder.

Most of our 'sheet' work is either 1.5 or 2.0mm and it handles that without any problem. Whilst I haven't yet used it myself, for others that regularly use the machine, the Training/Familiarization is/was about 20 minutes.

I really must set aside some time to get acquainted with it.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for your interesting information Grumps.

I'm surprised to learn that the plasma cutter you have access to performs so poorly on the thicker material especially given it's £1,352.00 price? I've never seen one of these plasma cutters and certainly never used one but I was seriously considering buying one of the plasma cutters on sale at around £200/£250 but without built in compressor.

Looking at the picture of the one you describe I wonder what kind of compressor it has because the whole unit looks rather compact; could it be the compressor not being man enough for the job on thicker material? I'm just curious wondering why so many much cheaper plasma cutters are advertised as easily cutting 12mm thick metal but with a remote air feed. I'd have thought a plasma cutter would be air hungry like other air powered tools? Just an idle thought.

I'm looking into various ways of cutting metal because using my hacksaw is tiring on the thicker sections. At the moment I'm considering making an hinged frame to convert my big angle grinder into a cut of saw for metal. A mains portable bandsaw looks a useful bit of kit but again would need a mounting frame for accurate repeat cuts; a metal cutting bandsaw is also an option as of course is a plasma cutter. I used to own a huge 3 phase Startrite Volant 24" bandsaw which would cut anything thrown at it but the saw was much too big for our garage so reluctantly I sold it. I also years ago owned a "Rapidor" power hacksaw and it did a good job but what a yawn. I can afford new metal cutting kit but for my low use I think the kit would remain unused most of the time whilst occupying space; I'll try the angle grinder again; I've recently used my jigsaw to cut some 6" x 3" heavy channel so I've got plenty of choice.

I'm still uncertain whether to upgrade my welder; I'm always interested in upgrading my kit to make life easier for me; are inverter welders reliable capable of lasting over 20 years as my trusty SIP 140A arc welder has done? I often think modern kit is designed and made to perform during it's warranty period then to die the day after the warranty expires; things are built down to a price these days.

Kind regards, Col.

[Dave54]

Decent welds there Col. That's the same welder I have. Mine must be 35+ years old. Still OK. I'd agree with your comments about the 2.5mm rods. I won't bother upgrading for the amount I do while that one goes on OK.
As far as cutting steel goes I was looking at this video from Chez the other day

Cuts steel no bother!

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Dave54 and thanks for adding Chez's excellent video.

Quite a while ago I owned one of the big Evolution saws and can confirm these cut metal; the pictures below amazed Evolution when I sent them showing cutting around 5" cast iron which I was making a pair of gears from. I sold the Evolution when I had chance of a nice Dewalt. At the time though I did wonder just how much it would cost in blades should I continually cut metal with the Evolution saw? Please do not copy my use of the Evolution saw because it could prove highly dangerous.

Sorry Argyll for hijacking your thread but metal cutting goes hand in hand with welding; any news yet Argyll on you buying a welder?

Kind regards, Col.

Evolution in action (2).JPG (238.94 KiB) Viewed 4670 times

Evolution in action (1).JPG (231.2 KiB) Viewed 4670 times

[Grumps]

I like that Evolution saw.

I'm surprised to learn that the plasma cutter you have access to performs so poorly on the thicker material especially given it's £1,352.00 price?

It could have been the person who was using it or it may have been the way it was set up. The cutting tip does get changed so there may be other tips for varying thicknesses. The machine/compressor is quite quiet but it does leave a degree of carp along the cut which then has to be finished with an angle grinder with a soft pad disc.

For the stuff I do, mainly ad hoc spacers or securing brackets, I'm quite proficient with an angle grinder with a 1mm disc. I use a length of masking tape, measure and mark with a pencil line, and then follow that. Minimal clean-up, and just round off any sharp corners with a soft pad disc. For most of what I do, It's not worth taking the time to set up anything else.

Our Permanent Way guys use something like this,


It'll go through that rail in probably something like a minute.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Grumps; now that's a toy I'd like in my workshop and one I'm trying to copy using my 9" angle grinder.

Kind regards, Col.

[Grumps]

Watching Wheeler Dealers some time back and they wanted some wheels widened. Mike Brewer visited a place where they put the wheel on a rotating mount, and then cut through the 'well' of the wheel with what looked like an angle grinder mounted on a pivot. They then made a custom insert (about 2" wide) and then welded it all back together again.

I could never work out how the Company managed to mount an angle grinder in such a manner. Upon reflection, it must have been a Chop Saw on a Custom mount.

A reasonable Chop Saw on Ebay, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stayer-Metal- ... SwdIFXzGuB



But it is collection only, from Southampton.

[Argyll]

I bought that Draper welder today for £40 which I thought was a good deal plus he gave me loads of 2.5mm rods. I don't have a helmet or gloves yet but I can borrow those from my cousin.

I haven't got a clue about this so I'll have to watch some YouTube videos before I start.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for the chop saw link grumps; much appreciated. Typical though most things second hand I would like to buy through either eBay or Gumtree are at the other end of the planet and collection only; I'm not knocking this because I sell lots of items on a cash and collection basis. Ideally I'd like to rig up a stand for my 9" angle grinder because I then could make better use of the angle grinder than having it sitting around; buying a chop saw would just take up more space so I like to make the most of machines I already have. I can easily afford a plasma cutter and inverter welder but do I really need this kit which again will sit around idle most of the time? My SIP arc welder does a good job but the problem I have most trouble with is in cutting steel; if I'm successful in sorting the angle grinder out then perhaps this will be all I really need; I'll update on this shortly. I've got lots of tools and power kit that sits around most of the time doing nothing so I'm reluctant to add to these.

Very well done Argyll and yes I'm sure you've got yourself a bargain with the Draper welder; may I suggest Argyll that you literally stick with practicing on the welder because too many give up thinking they will never do decent welds; when I say stick with it I mean it because as soon as you try welding for the first time the rod will instantly stick to the work; you'll naturally remove the welding mask to see what is happening then as the rod breaks free you'll see a blinding flash. This is very normal so please don't be deterred; clean the metal and attach the earth clamp then with your eyes protected simply tap the metal with the rod tip allowing it to bounce slightly; if you touch the metal with the tip without instantly lifting chances are that it will grab and stick; you need to tap and lift slightly to give about an 1/8" gap between metal and rod tip; once you master this then you are well on your way to welding; I always keep the welder near the weld with the controls facing me; I can then quickly switch off if needed; if you get a bad stick you can simply release the rod from the holder before removing the welding mask; each time you look at the arc without mask you'll see a bright star for ages and if you do this a number of times you'll end up with "arc eye" which is unpleasant so ensure your eyes are always protected; I always keep all my skin covered and wear gloves; proper welding gloves can be bought for as little as £3 but I use rigger gloves and have never had a glove caught fire yet. Be aware that welded metal will instantly blister bare skin so let it cool before handling; I don't wish to put you off welding but a few tips up front can point you in the right direction. Pity you don't live near otherwise I could have you welding in a very short time indeed. Your Draper welder will do the job and with a pack of rods you will soon pick up welding then I'm sure you'll never want to be without a welder again. Good luck Argyll and please keep posting because as a beginner to welding you can add valuable information as to your initial experience of welding letting others know what is involved.

I'm about to wander into the garage and will be doing a bit more welding today which I'm looking forward to.

Kind regards, Col.

[Hitch]

That welder wont be quite as nice to use as the modern electronic type, but i would agree about it lasting well. Pretty much solid electrics. Its old fashioned, but will weld. At £40, its pretty good starter.
Things like sticking electrodes are virtually eliminated on newer equipment, literally touch the metal and you're off.

Rod wise, basic general purpose rods for mild steel are 6013s. (Not 2013) Branded rods are much nicer to use than cheapy unbranded ones from the likes of screwfix, and well worth the slightly higher price....also check how much you get in a pack when comparing prices...

PPE, Get yourself some proper welding gloves, hardly any dearer, rigger gloves are too short and you'll end up with burned wrists if you do a decent amount.
Headshield wise, £40-50 should get you a half decent budget automatic one, steer clear of the really cheap ebay ones, they're unreliable, and spare cover lenses can be difficult to get hold of. A proper headshield will be 100x better than a handheld shield, allowing you both hands free.... or if you don't want to spend that, a fixed shade helmet would be iro £15.

A good tutorial here Argyll... http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/arc-tutorial.htm





Plasmas, Thermal Dynamics used to be one of the best around, but seem to have been left behind a bit now by the likes of Hypertherm. The biggest problem with most of the units with built in compressors are the poor air supply. Usually best avoided if you have a good air supply anyway. The HyperthermPM30air is only an 8mm clean machine at 30a.
Some manufactures have a different idea about what is a clean cut and what is a severance cut I think

[Argyll]

Thanks to both Colin and Hitch fr the advice.

The rods he gave me are from SF so i guess they'll be gash but I'll try them first to see how I get on.