Under kitchen cabinet lights

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:18 pm

It's not entirely true that it's illegal.

It is however 'Notify able'. That is you must inform your local authority's (Borough Council) Building Control Department that you intend to do this work.

They will then try and fob you off by saying you need a Part P Certified Electrician to test or carry out this work.

That's incorrect as Part P is part of the Building Regulations it is therefore Building Controls job to 'police' such. If they are not qualified to test your work (which they probably are not) then they MUST employ or subcontract out to a qualified electrician to test on their behalf it is NOT your responsibility.

If you do the install as per the directions you'll receive from here, have it confirmed by sparkiedude (our electrician expert), you will have conformed to BS7671. That's all you have to do. The rest is up to Building Control.

Hope that makes sense?

This is something I'm going through at the moment and will be adding sockets, moving lighting, installing boiler, installing cooker hood, installing cooker hob and oven and all the other things associated with a 3 meter extension.

I am doing all the work myself and will be calling upon Building Control to issue certificate on the works carried out. It is their STATUTARY Duty!

I've been doing a lot on this and there's a thread on it at Trusted Tradesmen here http://www.***************.com/forum/f ... 10004&PN=1

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:19 pm

A 20 amp junction box is best, it is easier to get the wires into a 20 amp. You could get away with a 5 amp one, but for a few pence more you are better off with the 20 amp-

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 5&id=15248

The heavy duty brown ones are also better then the white ones.

You might already have a junction box up there for the existing light, or it could be a ceiling rose.

Not sure if you have seen this or not yet, but it briefly describes the different lighting circuits-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/lighting_circuits.htm

If you get stuck or are unsure please post back

markysparky · Post by **markysparky** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:58 pm

Nothing wrong with taking it off the lighting circuit provided it is rated at 5/6amp of course.

And yes if it would be more convenient to come off the ring then a FCU with a 5 amp fuse in it would be what is needed.

Just make sure the lighting circuit doesn't go any more than 1200watts that's all

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:18 pm

Jaeger_S2k wrote:It's not entirely true that it's illegal.

It is however 'Notify able'. That is you must inform your local authority's (Borough Council) Building Control Department that you intend to do this work.

They will then try and fob you off by saying you need a Part P Certified Electrician to test or carry out this work.

That's incorrect as Part P is part of the Building Regulations it is therefore Building Controls job to 'police' such. If they are not qualified to test your work (which they probably are not) then they MUST employ or subcontract out to a qualified electrician to test on their behalf it is NOT your responsibility.

If you do the install as per the directions you'll receive from here, have it confirmed by sparkiedude (our electrician expert), you will have conformed to BS7671. That's all you have to do. The rest is up to Building Control.

Hope that makes sense?

This is something I'm going through at the moment and will be adding sockets, moving lighting, installing boiler, installing cooker hood, installing cooker hob and oven and all the other things associated with a 3 meter extension.

I am doing all the work myself and will be calling upon Building Control to issue certificate on the works carried out. It is their STATUTARY Duty!

I've been doing a lot on this and there's a thread on it at Trusted Tradesmen here http://www.***************.com/forum/f ... 10004&PN=1

When did you sneek this post in, I missed it completely

I don't care about part p to be honest, but I always try to warn people that they "could", "might", "may" end up in trouble

The amount of times I have had to change things on this site because of part p :evil:

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:43 am

ultimatehandyman wrote:
Jaeger_S2k wrote:It's not entirely true that it's illegal.

It is however 'Notify able'. That is you must inform your local authority's (Borough Council) Building Control Department that you intend to do this work.

They will then try and fob you off by saying you need a Part P Certified Electrician to test or carry out this work.

That's incorrect as Part P is part of the Building Regulations it is therefore Building Controls job to 'police' such. If they are not qualified to test your work (which they probably are not) then they MUST employ or subcontract out to a qualified electrician to test on their behalf it is NOT your responsibility.

If you do the install as per the directions you'll receive from here, have it confirmed by sparkiedude (our electrician expert), you will have conformed to BS7671. That's all you have to do. The rest is up to Building Control.

Hope that makes sense?

This is something I'm going through at the moment and will be adding sockets, moving lighting, installing boiler, installing cooker hood, installing cooker hob and oven and all the other things associated with a 3 meter extension.

I am doing all the work myself and will be calling upon Building Control to issue certificate on the works carried out. It is their STATUTARY Duty!

I've been doing a lot on this and there's a thread on it at Trusted Tradesmen here http://www.***************.com/forum/f ... 10004&PN=1
When did you sneek this post in, I missed it completely

I don't care about part p to be honest, but I always try to warn people that they "could", "might", "may" end up in trouble

The amount of times I have had to change things on this site because of part p :evil:

They all came in around the same time.

It's a mine field out there and Building Control is happy to fog the issue, he even told me that Part P certificate was the same as a Corgi Certificate. To that I was sure he was wrong as Corgi is NOT covered by Building Regulations but was hesitant to 'fall out' with the inspector. I've learnt that falling out with this particular one is inevitable so may as well be sooner than later.

I'm doing a letter to send to him informing him that the work will be carried out by me in accordance with BS 7671 and tested for polarity and continuity.
To insure the work falls within Building Regulations I trust he will either carry out the necessary inspection and tests or instruct someone to do so on his behalf to allow him to certify the work complies with the Part P of Building Regulations which fall under the jurisdiction of the Building Control department.

Or words to that effect.

In fact Stoday posted on TT "Part P does not require you to test. It used to, but was amended to exclude testing in 2006. So all you need to say is that you've complied with BS7671 insofar as it is required for part P."

If he doesn't know that I'm not telling him, but I will as soon as he hands me my Building Certificate! 8-)

Michelle · Post by **Michelle** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:03 am

Thanks for the advice everyone. It'll be interesting to se what the planning department says - I cant imagine them wanting to pay for the inspection out of their budget without a fight.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:19 am

Hi Michelle,
Just to clarify it's not the Planning Dept. but Building Control.

There will be a fee for them to inspect, there are generally 3 table of charge, Table A new builds, Table B Extensions, Garages etc and Table C for works which do not fit in the categories A or B work out on the value of the works involved.

You'll fall into table C, value of works is going to be less than £1000 so if you where in Wyre (were I am) you would have ZERO to pay for an Inspection Charge. Wyre's fees are Zero up to £9000. Just check online for your own Borough charges. You'll also find contact details there too.

Google "building control charges, (BOROUGH COUNCIL)" insert your area for (BOROUGH COUNCIL)

ban-all-sheds · Post by **ban-all-sheds** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:32 pm

Hmmm - now this gets interesting...

Jaeger_S2k wrote: I'm doing a letter to send to him informing him that the work will be carried out by me in accordance with BS 7671 and tested for polarity and continuity.
.
.
In fact Stoday posted on TT "Part P does not require you to test. It used to, but was amended to exclude testing in 2006. So all you need to say is that you've complied with BS7671 insofar as it is required for part P."

What Stoday says is crucial.

Part P does not require you to test.

Part P does not require you to adhere to BS 7671.

But BS 7671 does require you to test, so if you tell them that the way you will comply with Part P is simply to work in accordance with BS 7671, with no qualification of that statement, then you will have to test in accordance with it.

And that requires more than continuity and polarity testing, and it requires the use of specialised test equipment.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:23 pm

I wouldn't want this to become another dis-information thread so anyone interested should read the full post that Stoday made here http://www.***************.com/forum/f ... 10004&PN=2

As he also said using the form on page 23 of Part P Electrical Installation Certificate and In the box titled "Details of departures..." write "Excludes testing" if you aren't testing.

Would this be sufficient Ban-All-Sheds?

ban-all-sheds · Post by **ban-all-sheds** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:07 am

Sounds reasonable. But as there isn't actually any such thing as a "Part P Electrical Installation Certificate" (the EIC reproduced in Approved Document P is the EIC that the IEE publish), it might be better to use the full version, not the short one (you can download them all from the IEE website), and sign the sections for Design and Construction.

Please, though, give serious consideration to the fact that you will be signing declarations which read:

I/We being the person(s) responsible for the design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my/our signatures below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design hereby CERTIFY that the design work for which I/we have been responsible is to the best of my/our knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671 : ……….,

I/We being the person(s) responsible for the construction of the electrical installation (as indicated by my/our signatures below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the construction hereby CERTIFY that the construction work for which I/we have been responsible is to the best of my/our knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671 : ……….,

and whether you have grounds to believe that you have exercised reasonable care, and that the work is in accordance with BS 7671.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:27 am

ban-all-sheds wrote:Sounds reasonable.

Thanks.

ban-all-sheds wrote:But as there isn't actually any such thing as a "Part P Electrical Installation Certificate" (the EIC reproduced in Approved Document P is the EIC that the IEE publish), it might be better to use the full version, not the short one (you can download them all from the IEE website), and sign the sections for Design and Construction.

No there isn't but Page 23 of Part P there is a form entitled "Electrical Installation Certificate". :|

ban-all-sheds · Post by **ban-all-sheds** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:38 pm

That's what I said - on p23 of the Approved Document they reproduce the standard IEE EIC.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:54 pm

I don't think a pantomime, yes you did, no I didn't, will help.

The miss-quote is there for the record.

ban-all-sheds · Post by **ban-all-sheds** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:07 pm

Jaeger_S2k wrote:I don't think a pantomime, yes you did, no I didn't, will help..

Oh yes it will.

Jaeger_S2k · Post by **Jaeger_S2k** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:13 pm

Ooh NO it won't!!!!