Metal spinning/coach lamps.

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Metal spinning/coach lamps.

Post by Retired »

Hi,

It's ages since I posted on here; I've been extremely busy on other forums learning new skills currently on two stringed instrument forums learning to play a violin which I hope to cover after adding threads of other things I've been doing.

Please watch this video first;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FgXTi2ikvA

This project started quite innocently one Saturday morning whilst I attended Rufforth Auto Jumble near York; I was wandering around the outside stalls when I noticed a rather tatty cardboard box under a stall so being nosy I had a closer look; inside the box were two vintage coach lamps is very poor condition needing lots of TLC; they were mine for the huge sum of £3 the pair including cardboard box; I thought these will make a lovely restoration project; boy I sure was in for the unexpected.

Back home I made a start and stripped both lamps; they were indeed rough and having never worked on such lamps I was surprised to find three reflectors in each these were all different in design so in total I had three pairs of reflectors and they were in very poor condition their surfaces badly pitted and however hard I tried I couldn't improve on them much; obviously I couldn't just pop out and buy new reflectors which would have been easy but I never do "easy" so could I make copies out of aluminium the originals being aluminium.

I'd already bought a scrap Graduate wood-turning lathe and rebuilt it much modifying it to variable speed 3 phase with inverter rated 1.5hp motor perhaps I could spin new reflectors so I made a new strong spinning tool rest after watching a number of YouTube videos and having lots of HSS wood-turning tools I visited our local scrapyard and bought some scrap sheet aluminium. This proved an awful long story so to cut it shorter I tried and tried metal spinning using this scrap aluminum and became increasingly frustrated at each attempt.

I was going backwards so needed to try a different approach; I browsed the web and found a metal spinning company I could reach by car so armed with a pocketful of cash I headed over to this company and parked in the yard wondering what I was in for. I entered the big building and immediately noticed a row of very heavy powerful metal spinning lathes along the far wall with guys busy manually spinning; a guy approached me with welcome smile he shortly turned out to be the business owner and very strangely right from the start we clicked; I explained what I'd been attempting to do and he patiently listened until I'd finished; I was gobsmacked at his reply; he generously spent well over an hour treating me to a royal tour of his works; I was allowed to watch professional spinners in action and even speak to them; he showed me the entire works even the CNC spinning lathe and his TIG welding section; the place was alive and wide eyed I was shown the finished products just having come off the lathes; he showed me one of the stacks saying this is just an order for 6,000 of these; I sure was most impressed and was taking everything in.

I then asked if he would sell me a few aluminium blanks or even off-cuts of this correct quality spinning aluminium by the way its grade is "1050" he asked what size I'd like then he handed over ten blanks refusing payment of any kind but now he said put them down a minute and he took me over to where the lathes were and from a large bin he pulled out an old professional metal spinning tool and gave it to me also from this bin he pulled out two more spinning blades handing these to me; next he took me to the store where he handed me a huge block and a big tub of hard lubricant; as I sit here I'll never ever forget such kind friendly generosity; as I departed I was told I was very welcome to visit anytime not needing an appointment and I promised to keep in touch with my metal spinning progress; all this just because I had the cheek to drop in without appointment.

This must be over three years ago and I've visited many times for a good natter; the reason I was so well treated was that I was so interested in learning metal spinning unlike everyone else who visits just pestering him to get orders out as fast as possible and he could talk to me on the same level because of my mechanical engineering background hence as I say we clicked and still remain friends; this guy has recently sold the company and is now retired living abroad although we keep in touch via email; in my lifetime I've known very few genuine people but he is top.

Here's some of my many failed attempts at metal spinning;

Metal spinning coach lamps (23).JPG
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Metal spinning coach lamps (21).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (21).JPG (180.9 KiB) Viewed 1725 times
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Metal spinning coach lamps (17).JPG (180.21 KiB) Viewed 1725 times
Metal spinning coach lamps (15).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (15).JPG (170.77 KiB) Viewed 1725 times
Metal spinning coach lamps (13).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (13).JPG (166.32 KiB) Viewed 1725 times
Metal spinning coach lamps (8).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (8).JPG (171.54 KiB) Viewed 1725 times
Once I start a project I never ever quit until it's successfully completed; I'm too thick to know when to quit and walk away; I'll do whatever I have have to do and as in this case I often have to learn new skills by trial and error; just having this new information and being so generously given aluminium and tools etc doesn't mean I'm automatically a professional metal spinner; now I had to really get stuck in and practice.

A serious word of warning; metal spinning is extremely dangerous; a metal spinning disc at high speed is similar to a circular saw blade under full power and will if given chance remove limbs or if the lathe ejects the disk it could kill; further to this which I'll add here is that I fractured a rib whilst metal spinning; the spinning tool is 42" long and needs a great deal of force; I not only felt my rib fracture but it went with a loud crack; I was then taking light breaths for over two weeks.

I'll continue a bit later as I move onto how to do metal spinning which I hope will prove interesting.

Kind regards, Col.
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Post by arco_iris »

Great to have you back Colin, I for one have missed your detailed and informative posts - I was even concerned that something tragic had happened to you.

I particularly remember your coffered ceiling, and your ravings about your Monte Carlo contributed to getting one of my own!

Respect!
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

Many thanks arco_iris for your kind concern and comments it's much appreciated. I'm pleased to say now aged 75 I'm still climbing trees and have been working on our bungalow roof so I must be doing something right; a few years ago on a rare visit to our surgery the surgery nurse after measuring my height and weight suggested I put some weight on I'm built like a stick insect but then I'm always active and busy.

The blood has returned into my hands after installing the coffered ceiling and yes Bron and I loved our Fabia Monte Carlo which we owned for two years until our local Skoda dealership put on a special day with discounts; this was back in 2016 and we ended up with a lovely Skoda Yeti SE L 2.0L diesel in black; this Yeti is delightful so much so that it's a keeper unless it starts to cost a great deal in repairs it; no electric car for us our Yeti is the clean Adblue model and possibly a future classic it's just brilliant. I hope you enjoyed your Monte and are still enjoying it if you still have it.

I've just popped on having put the heating on in the studio where I'm about to enjoy a violin practice but I'll continue the thread a bit later on when I've got more time.

Kind regards, Colin.
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Post by wine~o »

:thumbup: Welcome back Colin, seems to me that as a retired person you are busier than most people who are still working... I'd not heard of this spinning until today. Good luck with your project.

P.S. Is Bron any better than last time we exchanged messages ? I do hope so.
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Post by Someone-Else »

"spinning" is how they make the "bell" for a trombone.
Nice to see you back "Retired"
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

Many thanks wine~o yes I'm as busy as ever and just enjoyed an hour in the studio practicing playing my violin. Bron bought me my first ever musical instrument for my 74th birthday it being a brand new Hidersine Vivente violin complete with case etc 16 months later I've now created a very nice studio with four violins; genuine Russian Balalaika and lots of recording kit; Bron spoils me rotten not just for special occasions but all year round. I've had a major problem though in that although I've got the studio every time I've tried to get in to practice I've ended up doing more pressing jobs to the point I felt like screaming. Last year with three severe storms coming up the valley in March our huge Crack Willow tree with three very big trunks suffered damage to one of the trunks making it unsafe so out I went in high wind and sleet and removed the damaged trunk but then I secured the remaining trunks with strong ropes to prevent these going over the fence into our neighbours garden.

Fed up with tree damage dragging me out in terrible weather I bought through eBay more long strong ropes and when these arrived I donned my heavy site coat and waterproof leggings then collected both my 20" petrol chainsaws and in atrocious weather with at times wind driven sleet I felled and disposed of 15 very tall trees taking just two weeks of extremely hard work; I then logged each tree for firewood and struggling on the steep slippery garden carried the lot down to our driveway where neighbours collected the logs; I've spent many hours helping neighbours but not one offered to help with the actual tree felling and finally I've adopted a saying from my friend David who lives 70 miles away; DIY = DON'T INVOLVE YOURSELF. No more favours from me in future.

August 27th last year my 75th birthday I thought at last a free day for some serious violin practice at last with no other pressing urgent job to do; first thing after breakfast I popped out to the wheelie bin and as I returned I was horrified to find our entire two roomed rear extension had detached from the main bungalow; happy birthday Colin? I tried phoning LV Insurance but with a queue of over twenty minutes I hung up and completed an urgent online claim form then waited and waited and waited which now brought up August Bank Holiday; I emailed LV Insurance on the bank holiday and WOW they were now very interested replying rapidly asking me to confirm cancellation of the claim. As usual I decided to do the repairs my way the hard way and set about repairing the two outer walls but leaving the middle inner wall until everything was watertight; as I was doing this I contacted a highly recommended roofer and for the first time called in outside help arranging him to visit; well he proved to be the invisible man so it took two weeks of hard work and I did the entire repair on my own with Bron as back up with lots of mugs of tea and biscuits; this time it was a heat wave. LV Insurance excess would have cost us £1,000 but I did the lot using best quality materials for around £400 and I know it's done well. Now in 2023 I've finally broken through and am enjoying a bit of rare peace spending time in the studio; so this is the sort of thing I've been constantly doing.

It's kind and thoughtful of you wine~o to ask about my lovely Bron; unfortunately Bron is gradually getting worse with health issues and last year had lots of hospital appointments and visits to the surgery three hospitals involved and even now she's no further forward always having tests then waiting forever for results before being sent for more tests; it's not life threatening but Bron is in constant pain with her feet after an operation to remove a nerve tumour this over 30 years ago and there's no cure for this but now she's also suffering assorted health problems and finds it difficult but she never complains; I've got a truly wonderful wife in Bron and I love her to bits. I hope you're keeping well wine~o and everyone else at your end; Happy New Year from Bron and me.

Thanks S-E it's nice to be back amongst friends; it's amazing the sheer diversity of items that can be spun in metal; metal spinning is often cheaper and quicker then a big company setting up tooling for mass production; it's amazing watching a professional metal spinner rapidly produce the smaller items; I've always been most impressed each time I've visited my friends spinning business; he's kindly shown me round many times letting me see new orders being completed. Sadly he's now living abroad but I still see him a couple of times each year when he returns to the UK.

Back to the plot at last;
Metal spinning coach lamps (81).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (81).JPG (206.71 KiB) Viewed 1671 times
Metal spinning tools and rigger gloves; spinning aluminium is a very dirty process indeed. These are two of the tools generously given to me.
Metal spinning coach lamps (22).JPG
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Here's a close up of what a professional metal spinning tool tip looks like; please note the profile and mirror finish; these tools are high grade tempered steel and the tip must be kept highly polished at all times.
Metal spinning coach lamps (5).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (5).JPG (110.44 KiB) Viewed 1671 times
Here's a close up of my home made tool rest; it has to endure terrific leverage imparted by the very long heavy spinning tools.
Metal spinning coach lamps (9).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (9).JPG (156.06 KiB) Viewed 1671 times
Spinning needs high grade plugs to spin against this is one under way.
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Metal spinning coach lamps (10).JPG (164.32 KiB) Viewed 1671 times
The plug completed ready to be spun against.
Metal spinning coach lamps (60).JPG
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It's incredibly difficult spinning deep parts like this which at last was an early success being spun against the plug shown; I was absolutely over the moon to complete this and even my friend with the spinning company was pleased at my progress but it took fierce concentration and lots of failures until I grasped the basics of metal spinning; even having help and guidance I found metal spinning to be a highly skilled process.
Metal spinning coach lamps (16).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (16).JPG (171.73 KiB) Viewed 1671 times
Here's the hard lubricant my friend generously gave me; a mixture needs making up consisting of paraffin and engine oil; a cloth is then soaked with this mixture now heat is applied to the hard lubricant allowing it to drip onto the cloth; finally the cloth is worked in the hands until everything is thoroughly mixed the cloth now used often before and during spinning.

YouTube video's show the spinning process but watching someone do this is totally different to doing it oneself; it's incredibly difficult; speed pressure angle lubricant have to be just right and to linger for a second without lubricant really does rough up the surface and when this happens it's another fail added to the growing pile of expensive scrap.

I was kindly shown many completed spun items in brass; stainless steel; aluminium; copper and even lead; the lead being incredibly difficult to spin. To say I was interested is a huge understatement; I can now successfully spin aluminium but it took months of practice. A short while ago I sold my Graduate lathe because now at 75 if anything untoward happen to me Bron would be totally lost as to what all the gear was in my workshop so I'm thinning it down a bit; I've still got my Record Power 24" DML wood-turning lathe which will cover my needs.

More to come because as I said I never do "Easy" and next time I'll show the six new lamp reflectors also the lamp rebuild. I feel another violin practice coming on after dinner; whoopee.

Kind regards, Col.
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

Having gained a bit of experience I could now move on to doing what I set out to do and spin the six new aluminium reflectors;
Metal spinning coach lamps (44).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (44).JPG (166.2 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
Spinning plug #1
Metal spinning coach lamps (47).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (47).JPG (127.02 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
Spinning plug #2
Metal spinning coach lamps (56).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (56).JPG (160.98 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
Spinning plug #3
Metal spinning coach lamps (72).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (72).JPG (167.77 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
Spinning plug #4
Metal spinning coach lamps (74).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (74).JPG (175.83 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
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Metal spinning coach lamps (59).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (59).JPG (194.57 KiB) Viewed 1649 times
Shown are the finished six reflectors plus the exterior reflectors the large ones. By now I was settling in nicely to metal spinning and quickly gaining a lot more confidence but definitely not over confidence because I was acutely aware of the dangers with trimming to size using a long handled HSS tool bit which was scary to say the least; during spinning and trimming I kept to one side just in case the item became an high speed missile but by concentrating all went well.

Metal spinning can't be classed as DIY because it's a highly skilled industrial process but such things interest me as I see them as challenges and I'm mad enough to have a go at anything grabbing my interest; I'd be happy if any member other than me has had a go at metal spinning to add their story. This now covers the metal spinning so next I'll add details showing the lamp bodies.

Kind regards, Colin
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

With the metal spinning successfully completed next was the lamp bodies and these were in very poor condition so as I had plenty of sheet aluminium I decided rather than mess around with the original bodies just to make from new.
Metal spinning coach lamps (65).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (65).JPG (210.8 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Cutting out before bending.
Metal spinning coach lamps (91).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (91).JPG (191.94 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Body assembled ready for painting. Spinning the two top sections was fun having large squares of aluminium just wanting to bite me.
Metal spinning coach lamps (92).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (92).JPG (165.02 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Inside picture.
Metal spinning coach lamps (94).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (94).JPG (182.47 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Undercoating.
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Metal spinning coach lamps (116).JPG (115.37 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Completed and power on.
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Metal spinning coach lamps (117).JPG (90.56 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Front picture; these sure are bright.
Metal spinning coach lamps (179).JPG
Metal spinning coach lamps (179).JPG (150.51 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
Top coat paint added this is Benjamin Moore Aura Exterior Satin to match the bungalow woodwork.
Jobs done._0002.JPG
Jobs done._0002.JPG (136.83 KiB) Viewed 1639 times
I thought I had a better picture but here one of the lamps can be seen installed to the wall; one each side of the front door. I also made the porch but a story for later.

Buying these two lamps I never ever knew what I was letting myself in for but I found restoring them to be very interesting and I admit I went way over the top but then once I start something I do my very best and a bonus is that I now know how and can do metal spinning; I hope this is of interest.

Kind regards, Col.
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Post by bourbon »

You should see if there is a market for them!
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

Thanks for your reply bourbon and suggestion which are much appreciated.

Vintage coach lamps tend to attract good prices on eBay but to put them into new production here in the UK wouldn't work. When I left my last job after 24 years in 2000 at the age of 53 I wanted to start up my own business making solid oak furniture in particular Welsh Dressers. I was put off because in short there's no encouragement to work or to make anything here in the UK there's so much red tape and many restrictions; there was even VAT charged on the rent of the old mill unit I was after; I'm married to a wonderful wife who at the time said do you really want all this stress and hassle I can manage on your final salary pension so I fully retired and never looked back. I did send off for a new business start up pack expecting help but all it was turned out to be how many I would take off the unemployment register.

Now fully retired I'm taxed on my works pension so if I was to do any paid work by law I'd have to declare it so exit one very hard working guy who's never sponged off society and as a thanks for paying my dues our former PM Tony Blair openly stated pensioners are a burden upon society. To think the UK was at the head of the industrial revolution but look at us now a guy like me with many skills no longer feeling it worth trying to better myself. I could of course be silly and have nothing but stress having these made in China or India.

Kind regards, Colin.
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Post by bourbon »

I understand your position on this, Setting any business up in the uk is a big hassle, with loads of hoops to jump through, unless you have plenty of 'brown envelopes' to spare. Of course, if someone 'happens' to like something you make you could always let it go 'to cover your costs' What these costs are, is up to you
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

Thanks bourbon; I know lots of people who only think of making money and strangely they usually look pretty miserable. My lovely wife and I are comfortable and are happy and content enjoying our respective hobbies; this morning I enjoyed an hours violin practice in my studio and this afternoon enjoyed learning baking. A couple of weeks ago I baked my first currant cake; this afternoon I've baked my third cake but also enjoyed experimenting with buns.
Buns Jan 2023_0005.JPG
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It's been an interesting and very enjoyable day; now I'm about to settle down with my wife watching episodes of Peyton Place on TV via YouTube. Life's good.

Kind regards, Colin,
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Post by Someone-Else »

I love glace cherries, hate sugar strands.
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Post by Retired »

Hi,

Thanks S-E, I just scoff the lot; A bit of a disappointment this morning; the icing hasn't set hard so before going shopping I had a quick browse on YouTube; perhaps I should have used egg white instead of water but I'm learning; I now know how to make sticky buns; they taste nice though. :huray:

Kind regards, Colin.
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Post by ericmark »

I was told on the Falklands best was penguin egg white, it also made great meringues, but in the Northern hemisphere hard to find penguin nests.

As to the lamps, wanted to fit 3 or 4 on my house, wife went into Link, and bought them for £2 each, I thought the £10 one from Screwfix was cheap, but could not buy the glass for that price, and although not a patch on the ones you have made, I have too many projects on the go to do that, but three years before I catch up with you on age.

I however do volunteer at local railway, although did not go down today, worried about slipping in the snow, not much snow, but I live on a 1 in 4 hill, not the thing to go sliding down. But it is hard to decide when to call it a day when repairing things, the 50 years old axe, had three heads and 10 handles, but still claims to be 50 year old.

So we are starting to replace things with plastic, the sleepers are now plastic, and the slats on the platform benches are next, still the old cast iron frame, but last year I stripped, and painted the wood for the benches, and this year it had all bubbled up, we were looking at least 5 years, not one.

It was claimed to be really good paint, sealer, then under coat, then 2 top coats, why did I bother? Just hope the ground frames last longer. But even them, I drilled and tapped the bearings and fitted grease nipples. Don't care if it is heritage, I want it to last.

We are all wondering what will happen when the new diesel engine arrives, due any day now, likely the largest on UK narrow gauge, from Taiwan, it will be able to pull more coaches than the steam engines, but will people want to be hauled by it.

But the Stanley steamer which calls in from time to time would look good with those lamps.
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