Add new outlets in house with original fuse box

[cday]

My house was built in 1968 and still has the original fuse box with wired fuses.

I want an electrician to add to the existing ring main a new spur for a combi boiler and a new dual 13A outlet.

Is it correct that in order to comply with the current regs the fuse box will have to be replaced by a modern consumer unit?

[yartin]

I am not electrician but I don't think you need to replace on the basis you can still buy fuse wires today from the likes of B&Q, Wickes ....etc.

But I would replace the fuse box to current rcbo or whatever they are called.

[Neelix]

If your house and CU date back to the 1960’s then improvements are long overdue.

Yes a new CU with RCBOs and SPD are in order and I would suspect that you may find the main earth is undersized and equipotential bonding missing

[cday]

If your house and CU date back to the 1960’s then improvements are long overdue.

Yes a new CU with RCBOs and SPD are in order and I would suspect that you may find the main earth is undersized and equipotential bonding missing

Fine in principle, but installing a consumer unit, which I understand would then require all the house wiring to be tested, would greatly increase the cost of simply adding two new outlets!

The existing system still works, I'm not aware of any campaigns to get householders to upgrade, and my building insurance doesn't ask whether the property has a modern consumer unit.

But my question is whether that extra work is required by the current [English] regs?

[OnlyMe]

The additions/alterations require RCD protection. It would be difficult to do with the existing setup.

How do you know that the 1968 installation works? I don't just mean that the sockets work but are they actually earthed?

[cday]

The additions/alterations require RCD protection. It would be difficult to do with the existing setup.

If that is so, I presume you know, there are inexpensive RCD units that can be installed in the individual circuits?

How do you know that the 1968 installation works? I don't just mean that the sockets work but are they actually earthed?

I am at least pretty sure the existing outlets all have earth connection, I have had some 13A outlets doubled...

More of a concern, perhaps, is that some wiring has the 'green fluid' characteristic of cables from that period, a risk of nuisance trips if the circuits are protected by RCDs or RCBOs, maybe when I am (dream on) away in the winter?

So, ultimately, the house really needs a full rewire, although a spur and new 13A outlet should actually operate satisfactorily for the foreseeable future?

[Someone-Else]

The "green fluid" is the plasticiser in the cables breaking down the cable. Just because your sockets have an earth connection, doesn't mean they actually have an earth, and if the wiring is that old, it was common then for lighting circuit to be wired in twin cable, NOT twin and earth.

The real "problem" with electricity is that you can't see it, you can't smell it, you can't hear it, but it can kill you in a second, by which time It's too late. Just because something works, does not mean that it is safe. But at the end of the day it's your choice to live in a dangerous place, not mine.

Electricity has no prejudices, it will kill anyone.

[Neelix]

Given you have noticed the green goo I would strongly advise you to have an EICR before you do anything

[OnlyMe]

The additions/alterations require RCD protection. It would be difficult to do with the existing setup.

If that is so, I presume you know, there are inexpensive RCD units that can be installed in the individual circuits?

How do you know that the 1968 installation works? I don't just mean that the sockets work but are they actually earthed?

I am at least pretty sure the existing outlets all have earth connection, I have had some 13A outlets doubled...

More of a concern, perhaps, is that some wiring has the 'green fluid' characteristic of cables from that period, a risk of nuisance trips if the circuits are protected by RCDs or RCBOs, maybe when I am (dream on) away in the winter?

So, ultimately, the house really needs a full rewire, although a spur and new 13A outlet should actually operate satisfactorily for the foreseeable future?

You are a troll. FOAD.

[ericmark]

The rules allow surface wiring or wiring using special wires not to be RCD protected, but it would require new RCD sockets, so outlet protected.

The date when all lights other than pendants needed to be earthed was 1966, but also around that time Ian Smith in South Africa caused a copper shortage, and some aluminium cable was used, today aluminium not used with cables under 25 mm² and it caused a lot of problems.

As to plasticiser leaching out, only cure is rewire, and until done don't touch cables, as they can crack as they become brittle as the plasticiser leaches out, you know it needs upgrading, and although I know you don't want the expense, in real terms you don't really have an option.

[Neelix]

Fine in principle, but installing a consumer unit, which I understand would then require all the house wiring to be tested, would greatly increase the cost of simply adding two new outlets!

The existing system still works, I'm not aware of any campaigns to get householders to upgrade, and my building insurance doesn't ask whether the property has a modern consumer unit.

But my question is whether that extra work is required by the current [English] regs?

[Neelix]

Fine in principle, but installing a consumer unit, which I understand would then require all the house wiring to be tested, would greatly increase the cost of simply adding two new outlets!

I'm not aware of any campaigns to get householders to upgrade,

[Neelix]

I'm not aware of any campaigns to get householders to upgrade,

Quite so - the muppets who update the regs do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to educate Joe Public and its left to the sparks on the front line to educate customers.

Having just retired as a spark it used to drive me MAD having to tell people about this AND as changed can occur every 3 - 4 years its tough on home owners too

AND the regs are so poorly written you can get differing opinions from different sparks

[ericmark]

AND the regs are so poorly written you can get differing opinions from different sparks

Oh your not kidding. We read the regs and in good faith do some thing, then the regs are clarified, if new not so bad as it always says designed after and a date with every new edition, but when clarified, that means one may have done something which were not permitted, but at the time no one realised.

We need a degree in English to work out what it says some times. And as to remembering what was permitted in 1965, that can also be a problem, filament lamps installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal. Could be installed without an earth. However lack of filament lamps today means this rule even in 1965 one would have not have been allowed to wire most lamps without an earth.

This all changed in 1966.

But when some one tries to read it wrong to save them work is different "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any, other purpose." Note the full stop, it than continued "Single-core cables that are coloured green-and-yellow throughout their length shall only be used as a protective conductor and shall not be over-marked at their terminations, except as permitted by Regulation 514.4.3." Was read by some as if not single core they could over-marked, but any English student would realise that is not the case, but the number of tank thermostats and wall thermostats where the green-and-yellow was over sleeved I have lost count.

So it is really down to who ever is signing the certificate as to what they allow.