What Circuit/ Lighting Is THIS?!

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:09 pm

Ive just moved into a new build. I have 6 rooms total, the rooms furthest the main circuit board just had one live, one neutral, one earth coming out of the ceiling, but the rooms basically next to the board have many more.

From all my research this seems to indicate a circuit system?! The problem is, I have bought a light (halogen bulbs but built in transformer) the little holes to put the wires into wont take all the wires from the ceiling!

Ive attached a picture as best as I could get of the current ceiling fitting. The problem is where do all those wires go when the new light only has virtually 1 hole for live, earth etc. I have thought of using a terminal block for them all and just putting two of the original wires into the light, but I dont know and would rather check before fiddling.

Ive spoken to an electrician who basically said fitting lights is easy enough, getting a pro in will prob cost a days labour (he lives a little way away but is a friend of a friend so tried and tested) if that all makes sense PLEASE HELP!

Cheers

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:18 pm

Looks like a regualr loop in ceiling rose to me, see here-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/diy/e ... /index.htm

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/diy/e ... onised.htm

and here-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/diy/e ... itting.htm

If the new light that you have bought does not have terminals in the fitting then it may be a better idea to terminate the existing wires into a choc box first, you can see how to do this on this page-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/how_t ... lights.htm

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:30 pm

Seems very straight forward then. Just take the blue one with the brown sleeve and the 2 remaining browns and place them into the corresponding holes in the new fitting, the 2 blues into a terminal block, well wrapped up with insulating tape and tuck away, into the ceiling?, and sorted?!

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:35 pm

Nope,

The blue with brown sleeve goes into the L terminal

The three brown wires are terminated into a terminal block.

The two blues go into the N terminal.

You don't really want to tape up the terminal blocks and tuck them into the ceiling as it is bad practice and so it is better if you use a chocbox like this-

There should be a terminal block attached to the new light already, or is there not one?

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:46 pm

So the guide on the link is bad practice! Naughty! A chocbox, god im certainly learning my bits for the day! So all three browns into a "chocbox" so they go in one side, but nothing out the other side, then close the box up, but where does that go? wont fit in the new light rose im sure!

Also, being a big circuit, taking all the browns out, that wont affect the rest will it?! No way doubting you, but wasnt sure if I made it clear it was a big circuit, then again you probably knew that from the pic! lol

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:52 pm

Oh and yes, a terminal block on the new one. Looks like this.... Just noticed, no earth! Am a tad worried about this light. Its one of those ones you screw a metal frame onto it and then clip the bulbs onto that, surely the elec is running freely down the wire frame and therefore dangerous?! But if that was the case it wouldnt be sold! Would it?!

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:56 pm

Willing_Learner wrote:So the guide on the link is bad practice! Naughty! A chocbox, god im certainly learning my bits for the day! So all three browns into a "chocbox" so they go in one side, but nothing out the other side, then close the box up, but where does that go? wont fit in the new light rose im sure!

Also, being a big circuit, taking all the browns out, that wont affect the rest will it?! No way doubting you, but wasnt sure if I made it clear it was a big circuit, then again you probably knew that from the pic! lol

No the guide is not bad practice as the terminal is not pushed into the ceiling as you suggested. The terminal is taped up and is in the actual light fitting

It is not the ideal solution, but the lighting manufacturers make such stupid light fittings that make terminating all the cables almost impossible. I once wired one from Ikea that had 6 live wires and 6 neutral wires

Might be a good idea if you post a pic of the light fitting.

You can terminate the brown (live ) wires into a terminal block and tape it up, but I would not push it into the ceiling, I would keep it in the light fitting!

If you want to push the wires into the ceiling then a choc box is best, but then you will need to make a large hole to push it up, and the new fitting may not cover the hole that you make.

Lighting manufacturers do not consider how difficult it is to fit some fittings!

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:03 pm

Ahhhh makes sense now! Still concerned the light doesnt have an earth, AND just seen it has 4 holes, 2 in live 2 in neutral??!! Well have given you a pic to browse, I know hoe much you like them! lol

Think im basically sorted with that light then, although bit concerned about the flow of power through the actual frame!

Am going for the wires into a block and taped but NOT IN CEILING

Do I need one wire in one hole? Not all three wires in one hole!?

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:08 pm

The light looks like it is double insulated and so does not need an earth wire, so just terminate the earth wires into a terminal block, don't cut them off as you may need them in the future!

Is the light a low voltage light?

I have not seen one quite like this before, but they are all different.

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:14 am

Now your asking!

Its got 4 halogen bulbs that you clip on, ill do some pics, and on the light it says the following:

elec transformer 110va
input: 220-240v~/50hz 0.50a
output: 11.5vac max.110w
lamp: 35-110w

the bit about 2 holes for live and 2 for neutral, the light wires going in the back only fill 2 holes. If that makes a difference!

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:28 am

I mentioned about a light fitting with 6 lives and Neutrals- that was from Ikea

Thanks for posting the pics, they are a great help

Your light is low voltage and the voltage is transformed from mains voltage down to 12v which is much safer, hence you can touch the tracks without being electrocuted

It looks like you may be able to make the connections in the top of the light fitting, without having to push anything into the ceiling, but it's hard to tell from pictures.

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:47 am

You will, the terminal blocks will fit. But may show through the frosted type plastic, but a small price to pay, and wont matter if i do a neat job!

So, to confirm it all...

3 BROWNS into a terminal block, one wire in each hole (so a 3 screw long block) right?

the BLUE with the BROWN sleeve into the LIVE terminal on light fitting

the 2 remaining BLUE's into the NEUTRAL on the light fitting

The earth wire into another terminal block and taped up also.

SORTED?! 8-)

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:54 am

Willing_Learner wrote:You will, the terminal blocks will fit. But may show through the frosted type plastic, but a small price to pay, and wont matter if i do a neat job!

So, to confirm it all...

3 BROWNS into a terminal block, one wire in each hole (so a 3 screw long block) right?

the BLUE with the BROWN sleeve into the LIVE terminal on light fitting

the 2 remaining BLUE's into the NEUTRAL on the light fitting

The earth wire into another terminal block and taped up also.

SORTED?! 8-)

Almost right.

The three browns all go into one terminal block, so that they are all connected together-

Liike the red wires in this picture-

You are right with everything else

Willing_Learner · Post by **Willing_Learner** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:01 am

FINAL query then.... can I have a 2 screw long terminal block, the three browns in one hole and the earth in the next, or do they need to be seperate blocks?

Post by **ultimatehandyman** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:06 am

Willing_Learner wrote:FINAL query then.... can I have a 2 screw long terminal block, the three browns in one hole and the earth in the next, or do they need to be seperate blocks?

They don't need to be seperate blocks as long as the terminals are insulated from each other.

So if you were to cut two terminals from a terminal strip like the one attached then that would be fine-